magic devices

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magic devices

Drasko Cvijovic
I can't resist sharing Willie's disgust against the explanations like those about Pulsors.
I have wrote about it in my previous postings.

But I also do share Marc's and Charles' standpoints, as I know that some of the magic devices do make a difference (I am offering a bet that I am able to distingish their presence). Still, that doesn't mean that all those theoretical descriptions have anything to do with the reality. Unfortunatelly not many people care about distinguishing facts from hypothesis.

Let me tell you the essence of my explorations in the field of any alternative "science":

a) There is a lot of truth in it.
b) There is a lot of crap in it.
c) The main and the only problem is how to distinguish those two within any particular "theory".

I hope this list would help us regarding c), as the (most) scientists won't be of much help, be they alternative or classic ones. They prefer theory to facts.

Drasko


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Re: magic devices

Marc Martin
Administrator
> But I also do share Marc's and Charles' standpoints, as I know that some
> of the magic devices do make a difference (I am offering a bet that I am
> able to distingish their presence). Still, that doesn't mean that all
> those theoretical descriptions have anything to do with the reality.

Unfortunately, these theoretical descriptions don't give any concrete
examples of their effectiveness. For example, there are many products
out there which claim to trasmute positive ions to negative ions, or
change the rotation direction of electrons, or increase the "coherence"
or "chi" in the environment, and from their descriptions they all sound
like they might have about the same effectiveness.

However, when one purchases these products and tries them out in
the real world, one finds that there is a huge range of effectiveness
in these similarly-described products. One product may not be able
to come even close to neutralizing a CRT computer monitor (e.g, a Teslar
watch, a purple plate, a Q-Link pendant), while others can do it
with extra energy to spare (e.g, Springlife Polarizer,
Earthcalm pendant).

All I really care about is if the product works -- if it can allow
me to be healthy in an environment surrounded by computers, fluorescent
lights, cell phones, etc. The theory of how it works isn't particularly
important to me. Especially when the theory doesn't make much sense!
:-)

Marc

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Re: magic devices

charles-2
That is exactly my viewpoint.
For a lot of things, there even does not exist a theory.

Charles

----- Original Message -----
From: "Marc Martin" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2004 19:49
Subject: Re: [eSens] magic devices


> All I really care about is if the product works -- if it can allow
> me to be healthy in an environment surrounded by computers, fluorescent
> lights, cell phones, etc. The theory of how it works isn't particularly
> important to me. Especially when the theory doesn't make much sense!
> :-)
>
> Marc

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Re: magic devices

Marc Martin
Administrator
> That is exactly my viewpoint.
> For a lot of things, there even does not exist a theory.

What I find unfortunate is that there are obviously many
people out there who *need* to have a theory before they
are willing to try a product, and that theory *must* be
believable to them. This is too bad, because they may
continue to stay disabled because of this requirement for
a believable theory.

I know that the products I'm currently using -- the
Springlife Polarizers -- have theories about how they
work printed on the Internet that I don't believe
at all. But I tried the product anyway, and it worked
better than products that had more credible theories.

Marc

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Re: magic devices

Anders Eriksson
The effect from those magic devices is probably due to placebo effect,
nothing else! Try positive thinking, it often works, and it is cheap.

What it's all about is $$$$$, P L E N T Y OF THEM!

Vitamins and minerals DO HAVE EFFECT!

Avoiding exposure from EMF DO HAVE EFFECT!

Shielding in appropriate way MIGHT WORK!

Shielding 50/60Hz is possible using thick aluminium plate, at least 5
mm. The shielding effect improves with increasing frequency and
increasing thickness.

The cellular phone industries applaud a list like this, plenty of the
participants individuals can be rejected as more or less insane!

YES, I know that plenty of You (and myself, since 1989) who suffers from
ES (and mercury poisoning) will be upset, but realize that if the
society in the future shall be able to take US seriously, then we have
to act in that direction!

And, Y E S, I do rails that plenty of You sees me as a pain in the ...

Anders Eriksson


Marc Martin wrote:

>>That is exactly my viewpoint.
>>For a lot of things, there even does not exist a theory.
>
>
> What I find unfortunate is that there are obviously many
> people out there who *need* to have a theory before they
> are willing to try a product, and that theory *must* be
> believable to them. This is too bad, because they may
> continue to stay disabled because of this requirement for
> a believable theory.
>
> I know that the products I'm currently using -- the
> Springlife Polarizers -- have theories about how they
> work printed on the Internet that I don't believe
> at all. But I tried the product anyway, and it worked
> better than products that had more credible theories.
>
> Marc
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>

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Re: magic devices

Marc Martin
Administrator
> The effect from those magic devices is probably due to placebo effect,
> nothing else! Try positive thinking, it often works, and it is cheap.

I agree that positive thinking is helpful. I also know that the
placebo effect is NOT a factor, because I have observered repeatable
reactions to these devices from my wife, my cats, and others when
they have no idea that I have put a device into their environment.

> Vitamins and minerals DO HAVE EFFECT!

Yes, but with vitamins and minerals, you have to keep buying them
each month. Over time, this can add up to a lot of money. With
a device, you can get results without having to continually buy
more each month.

> Avoiding exposure from EMF DO HAVE EFFECT!

Not practical if you have a job in a building full of fluorescent
lights and computers. Heck, it's not even practical if you want
to go to the grocery store!

> Shielding in appropriate way MIGHT WORK!

Again, this may be practical in your bedroom, but certainly not
in a typical office building.

> The cellular phone industries applaud a list like this, plenty of the
> participants individuals can be rejected as more or less insane!

They think we're crazy already, so what's the difference? :-)
I EXPECT them to be hostile towards us, but I don't expect
other ES suffers to be.

> YES, I know that plenty of You (and myself, since 1989) who suffers from
> ES (and mercury poisoning) will be upset, but realize that if the
> society in the future shall be able to take US seriously, then we have
> to act in that direction!

I'm not upset with you... I understand where you're coming from. But I
also know from my own past experiences that what you are suggesting does
not work. And what I am suggesting does. I know this, because I've
tried both. It sounds like you have not.

Perhaps you should try something before condemning it?

Marc

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RE: magic devices

Lachlan Mudge
In reply to this post by Drasko Cvijovic
Hi Everyone
I think that debate is very healthy for all of us in this group to experience,
as this can be where breakthroughs in knowledge occur. I am concerned however,
that antagonism might also occur, and I don't think this is constructive. This
list is very important to me and many others and I am concerned that antagonism
will stop even one of you people from sharing your valuable views, which could
make the difference between good health and bad health for one person or many.
We are all very passionate about this subject because it influences our lives
directly so I hope that we can channel this passion towards solving our
problems rather than arguing over opinions or positions.
There are many preparations and devices that claim to have positive health
benefits, with regard to electromagnetic effects. Like others, my
scientifically trained mind will not accept that certain devices work, however
this resistance could actually influence the effectiveness of such devices or
preparations. It is very hard to have a completely open mind and positive
thinking requires a lot of energy to begin, particularly if one is already
depressed (either physically or mentally), which appears to be one of the many
symptoms of EHS. I imagine that there are also many of us who can't afford to
buy even one device or bottle of pills, no matter how legitimate or otherwise,
so this could also be something to keep in mind. Cheap and effective solutions
to problems are sure to be out there and require a bit of lateral thinking
(something that I am sure the HUGE set of brains we have available to us in
this group is capable of).
I think we must all also accept that very few of us (myself included) have the
resources to carry out a pure scientific experiment, eliminating the infinite
number of external factors that could exert an influence. Therefore, there is
a distinct possibility that the results of experiments we carry out on
ourselves are possibly related to other factors (either internal or external).
I agree with many of you that if something works for you, then that is a good
thing. I also believe that we can all learn something from a recent discovery
by Wolfgang Loescher (Hanover Medical School, Germany), that the difference in
observed results of seemingly identical experiments performed by himself and
Larry Anderson at Batelle Labs in Richmond WA (USA), were apparently due to a
slight genetic difference between different strains of the same species of rat,
on which experiments were performed (see this weblink for a little more
information - http://www.microwavenews.com/viewsonnews.html). Furthermore,
there is also a possibility that there are differences between the health
effects of 50Hz and 60Hz EM fields and radiation, and some of us are exposed to
one whilst others are exposed to the other, expecting the same devices and
preparations to protect us identically from either. This is an almost
infinitely complicated area to understand and we are all at the start of a very
long road towards understanding how it affects our lives. I look forward to
learning more from you all. Best regards and my apologies if this feels like a
lecture (my passion for this subject gets the better of me too)
Lachlan

-----Original Message-----
From: Marc Martin [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Thursday, 12 February 2004 7:18 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [eSens] magic devices

> The effect from those magic devices is probably due to placebo effect,
> nothing else! Try positive thinking, it often works, and it is cheap.

I agree that positive thinking is helpful. I also know that the
placebo effect is NOT a factor, because I have observered repeatable
reactions to these devices from my wife, my cats, and others when
they have no idea that I have put a device into their environment.

> Vitamins and minerals DO HAVE EFFECT!

Yes, but with vitamins and minerals, you have to keep buying them
each month. Over time, this can add up to a lot of money. With
a device, you can get results without having to continually buy
more each month.

> Avoiding exposure from EMF DO HAVE EFFECT!

Not practical if you have a job in a building full of fluorescent
lights and computers. Heck, it's not even practical if you want
to go to the grocery store!

> Shielding in appropriate way MIGHT WORK!

Again, this may be practical in your bedroom, but certainly not
in a typical office building.

> The cellular phone industries applaud a list like this, plenty of the
> participants individuals can be rejected as more or less insane!

They think we're crazy already, so what's the difference? :-)
I EXPECT them to be hostile towards us, but I don't expect
other ES suffers to be.

> YES, I know that plenty of You (and myself, since 1989) who suffers from
> ES (and mercury poisoning) will be upset, but realize that if the
> society in the future shall be able to take US seriously, then we have
> to act in that direction!

I'm not upset with you... I understand where you're coming from. But I
also know from my own past experiences that what you are suggesting does
not work. And what I am suggesting does. I know this, because I've
tried both. It sounds like you have not.

Perhaps you should try something before condemning it?

Marc



Yahoo! Groups Links

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RE: magic devices

Marc Martin
Administrator
In reply to this post by Drasko Cvijovic
>Like others, my scientifically trained mind will not accept that certain
>devices work, however this resistance could actually influence the
>effectiveness of such devices or preparations.

I really doubt than anyone's skepticism would prevent them from noticing
the effects of the more powerful devices. I've got a few things that I
would think that any ES person would notice almost immediately. With some
of these devices, the effect is NOT subtle. And for some of the stronger
ones, I've lent them to non-ES folks, and they also noticed something right
away.

I suppose we could put this to a test -- I've got a whole box full of
discarded devices.... I could mail you one of the stronger ones, and you
could determine for yourself if your resistance is strong enough... :-)

Marc

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RE: magic devices

juliehart1962
In reply to this post by Lachlan Mudge
I agree with you, Lachlan Mudge, I too, joined this group because I wanted to find others that are suffering with these symptoms...i.e. fatigue, dizziness, depression, headache, burning feet, and sleeping disorders. I know most of the symptoms I have are also associated with MS, which I found out I have, two years ago, but these symptoms did not flare up until I started working in a building that has a cell phone tower on top of it, the 4 stories above us has computers for the telephone company and I now work 8-9 hrs a day in front of a computer. The building has been tested and there are high levels of EMR. I didn't join this group to be told that I think I am the center of the universe or that what I am experiencing is all in my head. My advise is, don't judge others until you walked in their shoes.


Lachlan Mudge <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Everyone
I think that debate is very healthy for all of us in this group to experience,
as this can be where breakthroughs in knowledge occur. I am concerned however,
that antagonism might also occur, and I don't think this is constructive. This
list is very important to me and many others and I am concerned that antagonism
will stop even one of you people from sharing your valuable views, which could
make the difference between good health and bad health for one person or many.
We are all very passionate about this subject because it influences our lives
directly so I hope that we can channel this passion towards solving our
problems rather than arguing over opinions or positions.
There are many preparations and devices that claim to have positive health
benefits, with regard to electromagnetic effects. Like others, my
scientifically trained mind will not accept that certain devices work, however
this resistance could actually influence the effectiveness of such devices or
preparations. It is very hard to have a completely open mind and positive
thinking requires a lot of energy to begin, particularly if one is already
depressed (either physically or mentally), which appears to be one of the many
symptoms of EHS. I imagine that there are also many of us who can't afford to
buy even one device or bottle of pills, no matter how legitimate or otherwise,
so this could also be something to keep in mind. Cheap and effective solutions
to problems are sure to be out there and require a bit of lateral thinking
(something that I am sure the HUGE set of brains we have available to us in
this group is capable of).
I think we must all also accept that very few of us (myself included) have the
resources to carry out a pure scientific experiment, eliminating the infinite
number of external factors that could exert an influence. Therefore, there is
a distinct possibility that the results of experiments we carry out on
ourselves are possibly related to other factors (either internal or external).
I agree with many of you that if something works for you, then that is a good
thing. I also believe that we can all learn something from a recent discovery
by Wolfgang Loescher (Hanover Medical School, Germany), that the difference in
observed results of seemingly identical experiments performed by himself and
Larry Anderson at Batelle Labs in Richmond WA (USA), were apparently due to a
slight genetic difference between different strains of the same species of rat,
on which experiments were performed (see this weblink for a little more
information - http://www.microwavenews.com/viewsonnews.html). Furthermore,
there is also a possibility that there are differences between the health
effects of 50Hz and 60Hz EM fields and radiation, and some of us are exposed to
one whilst others are exposed to the other, expecting the same devices and
preparations to protect us identically from either. This is an almost
infinitely complicated area to understand and we are all at the start of a very
long road towards understanding how it affects our lives. I look forward to
learning more from you all. Best regards and my apologies if this feels like a
lecture (my passion for this subject gets the better of me too)
Lachlan

-----Original Message-----
From: Marc Martin [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Thursday, 12 February 2004 7:18 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [eSens] magic devices

> The effect from those magic devices is probably due to placebo effect,
> nothing else! Try positive thinking, it often works, and it is cheap.

I agree that positive thinking is helpful. I also know that the
placebo effect is NOT a factor, because I have observered repeatable
reactions to these devices from my wife, my cats, and others when
they have no idea that I have put a device into their environment.

> Vitamins and minerals DO HAVE EFFECT!

Yes, but with vitamins and minerals, you have to keep buying them
each month. Over time, this can add up to a lot of money. With
a device, you can get results without having to continually buy
more each month.

> Avoiding exposure from EMF DO HAVE EFFECT!

Not practical if you have a job in a building full of fluorescent
lights and computers. Heck, it's not even practical if you want
to go to the grocery store!

> Shielding in appropriate way MIGHT WORK!

Again, this may be practical in your bedroom, but certainly not
in a typical office building.

> The cellular phone industries applaud a list like this, plenty of the
> participants individuals can be rejected as more or less insane!

They think we're crazy already, so what's the difference? :-)
I EXPECT them to be hostile towards us, but I don't expect
other ES suffers to be.

> YES, I know that plenty of You (and myself, since 1989) who suffers from
> ES (and mercury poisoning) will be upset, but realize that if the
> society in the future shall be able to take US seriously, then we have
> to act in that direction!

I'm not upset with you... I understand where you're coming from. But I
also know from my own past experiences that what you are suggesting does
not work. And what I am suggesting does. I know this, because I've
tried both. It sounds like you have not.

Perhaps you should try something before condemning it?

Marc



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Marketing Executive
262-534-9080
CONCERNED ABOUT YOUR FAMILY'S HEALTH AND TOXINS IN YOUR HOME? GO TO:
http://success4u.worldwidefamilies.com





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Re: magic devices

akfixer
In reply to this post by Drasko Cvijovic
In a message dated 2/11/2004 11:14:12 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[hidden email] writes:
I suppose we could put this to a test -- I've got a whole box full of
discarded devices.... I could mail you one of the stronger ones, and you
could determine for yourself if your resistance is strong enough... :-)

Marc
Yes Marc, Maybe the ES group could look into an exchange program for the
different devices. It seems there many stories of people trying stuff that does
not work for them yet other get good benefit from the same device. The
exchange program would be set up as a listing of items that you want to exchange
for another. In this way it would provide a way for all to try different things
to find one that does them the most good. And do it very economically.
Bill W


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Re: magic devices

Marc Martin
Administrator
> Yes Marc, Maybe the ES group could look into an exchange program for
> the different devices. In this way it would provide a way for all to
> try different things to find one that does them the most good. And do
> it very economically.

Yes, good idea! Especially for those people who have already spent money
on devices which did not work for them, this could allow them an
opportunity to trade for another one which might.

But I wonder what one can put on the postal customs form? Will they even
know what an "EMF Protection Device" is???

Marc

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