easy sleepting enclosure

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easy sleepting enclosure

Karl
This type of shelving can be used to make a bed enclosure in a hurry with very little preparation:

http://www.kmart.com/essential-home-4-cube-wire-storage-unit-set/p-011W006290669001P?sid=KDx01192011x000001&gclid=CN2is8XLws8CFQ-raQodCk0O6w&gclsrc=aw.ds#

https://www.storesupply.com/pc-13501-518-3-w-x-3-h-black-mini-grid-unit-with-back-30201.aspx?st-t=google_ppc_shopping_wiregrid_13501&vt-pti={adwords_producttargetid}&gclid=CI-zy8LLws8CFQIoaQod848OaA&gclsrc=aw.ds

If you have the tools and time, just getting some screen and making a wood frame is probably cheaper, but this is easier to take apart or re-size.
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Re: easy sleepting enclosure

Karl
I should have been clearer about one thing: The connectors let you assemble it into flat panels or boxes of different sizes. I used it to make a canopy bed sized enclosure.
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Re: easy sleepting enclosure

Fog Top

Thanks, Carl.  What type of material do you use to cover the boxes for shielding?




From: Karl [via ES] <ml-node+[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, October 7, 2016 1:57 PM
To: Fog Top
Subject: [ES] Re: easy sleepting enclosure
 
I should have been clearer about one thing: The connectors let you assemble it into flat panels or boxes of different sizes. I used it to make a canopy bed sized enclosure.


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Re: easy sleepting enclosure

Patricia
In reply to this post by Karl
hmm... karl, would you mind reposting what this refers to? 
i cannot find anything that resembles it.  thanks.  
patricia 



On Oct 7, 2016, at 8:57 AM, Karl [via ES] wrote:

I should have been clearer about one thing: The connectors let you assemble it into flat panels or boxes of different sizes. I used it to make a canopy bed sized enclosure.


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Re: easy sleepting enclosure

Karl
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Re: easy sleepting enclosure

Karl
In reply to this post by Fog Top
I have the inside lined with cardboard painted with an absorbent paint*, but the panels themselves should block a lot of cell and WiFi radiation because the holes in the grating are smaller than the wavelength of 5 GHz radio, which is the highest WiFi/cell frequency.

* I mixed graphite powder that I bought on Amazon with latex paint at a 50:50 ratio. This is the stuff that I used:

https://www.amazon.com/Dixon-Graphite-Microfyne-463-LMF1-Category/dp/B01B3HS89S/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1475876481&sr=8-5&keywords=microfyne

You could probably also use a seed lube:

https://www.amazon.com/Seed-SLIK-Graphite-Powder-1lb/dp/B008CQFMGG/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1475876548&sr=8-6&keywords=graphite+powder 
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Re: easy sleepting enclosure

Fog Top

* I mixed graphite powder that I bought on Amazon with latex paint at a 50:50 ratio. This is the stuff that I used:

Very interesting and infinitely cheaper than prepared mix carbon paint.  How many containers of the graphite powder did it take to mix with a gallon of paint?  Have you used a good EMF meter to see the inside vs outside canopy RF results?





From: Karl [via ES] <ml-node+[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, October 7, 2016 9:44 PM
To: Fog Top
Subject: [ES] Re: easy sleepting enclosure
 
I have the inside lined with cardboard painted with an absorbent paint*, but the panels themselves should block a lot of cell and WiFi radiation because the holes in the grating are smaller than the wavelength of 5 GHz radio, which is the highest WiFi/cell frequency.

* I mixed graphite powder that I bought on Amazon with latex paint at a 50:50 ratio. This is the stuff that I used:

https://www.amazon.com/Dixon-Graphite-Microfyne-463-LMF1-Category/dp/B01B3HS89S/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1475876481&sr=8-5&keywords=microfyne
www.amazon.com
Buy Dixon Graphite Microfyne Graphite 1lb Can (463-LMF1) Category: Dry Lubes by Dixon Graphite: Cleaners - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases



You could probably also use a seed lube:

https://www.amazon.com/Seed-SLIK-Graphite-Powder-1lb/dp/B008CQFMGG/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1475876548&sr=8-6&keywords=graphite+powder 
www.amazon.com
Seed SLIK Graphite Powder, 1lb can: Other Products: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific




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Re: easy sleepting enclosure

Karl
> Very interesting and infinitely cheaper than prepared mix carbon paint.

It's not quite the same stuff. The YSHIELD paint has 20-25% graphite and 10-15% carbon black. I haven't found a good source for the latter.

> How many containers of the graphite powder did it take to mix with a gallon of paint?

I've mixed it in smaller batches, and some of the earlier ones were less than 50:50.  So far I've gone through about a gallon and still have some graphite left over in the one pound can that I bought.

> Have you used a good EMF meter to see the inside vs outside canopy RF results?

I haven't found a good meter yet. Right now I'm using the reception on an old cell phone as an unpleasant test, and the steel shelving seems to perform about as well as aluminum screen. Both of them allow some signal through, which doesn't make me happy.
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Re: easy sleepting enclosure

BruceM
Banned User
Some serious reading on EMC will help resolve shielding questions. Donald White's Volume 3 on EMC specifically covers shielding design.  It is, alas, geek-speak for EEs.

While I applaud the homemade conductive paint, I would hasten to add that this is not the best choice for a shield enclosure. 1 mil, or 0.001" thick aluminum foil provides well over 90dB of shielding for microwaves. So where a solid surface is practical, it would be foolish to use other materials.  It can be applied to bare drywall or flat latex painted surfaces with corn starch as a wall paper adhesive.  Using non-conductive aluminum tape works fine for microwave frequencies since capacitive coupling is so effective at these frequencies.  This is what I use for my interior shield layer, in my home tested for -60dBm of shielding via a 1000 watt microwave oven modified to have a vertical slit radiator instead of a door. Measurement by Aaronia HF Detektor and Cornet ED85EXS, 6 feet inside the house, transmitter power measured at 0 dBM, 38 total feet from the transmitter, with door or window shielding removed. Yes, it was a big setback, health-wise to do this measurement.  

I'd also like to comment on absorbing materials.  For a shielding a bed, room, or home, forget this marketing fantasy.  Your losses will be mostly reflective.  There is also some absorption and other surface scattering losses, even from foil.  Don't be fooled by marketing hype claiming a thin carbon doped material is an absorber.  Carbon black or graphite loaded paints, or fiber materials are mostly reflective.  If you want true absorption, you'll have to make an anechoic chamber.

  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anechoic_chamber

They use carbon doped plastic foam pyramids to absorb; they are still largely reflective, but the shape makes waves bounce in and in again, before bouncing out and out again. At each bounce, some absorption and scattering occurs.  It will cost you a bundle and have walls and ceiling 3 feet thick. It is also totally inappropriate for people with MCS due to all the surface area of carbon doped plastic foam, so you'll have to erect a glass or ceramic wall inside the anechoic chamber walls.

Aluminum bug screen, about 17 treads per inch, provides roughly -20dBm (power) or about -40db for voltage at 2 GHz.  This is an affordable choice if it suits your shielding goals.  For my home I use 50tpi stainless mesh for my "over the entire window" screens.  You can get stainless, aluminum, and copper mesh over 100TPI at TWPinc.com.  They have an 86 mesh stainless screen that is a bargain and we are using on my new neighbor's shielded home.

I have tested some of the "shield veil" and some fabrics such as the swiss shield products.  Where a drape must be used, I urge caution for those with MCS.  Get a small sample and test.  

Your chances of succeeding in making a high performance shielded space are nil if you don't study the principles of shield room design first.  Windows, doors, cracks and gaps almost always limit the performance.
An example of expensive failure is the notion that painting the house with conductive paint will provide lots of shielding. It can't, because of the windows, doors, roof, gap at the base of the wall, etc.  If you must rely on a consultant, insist on measuring inside and out of one of his other projects first.  I have not seen hardly any projects that were not pathetic in terms of expense vs level of shielding.  

Best Wishes,
Bruce

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Re: easy sleepting enclosure

Karl
I initially did this because I had a bunch of the stuff lying around, but I see now that it has slot antennae. I'd already gotten rid of penetrations. I was also hoping that adding some steel would help with low frequencies, although it's not very much material.

As an aside, I ran into a problem when I first added aluminum screen to all of my windows: Two are triangular, and it either had little effect or made things worse.

(It's hard to tell because of my inexcusably crappy metrology in this case; I don't know enough about this to pick good instruments, and I don't want to buy crappy ones. I'm also worried about placebo, since I want to test what I'm sensitive to as well as testing which mitigations work for a given frequency.)

Since I cut the screen to fit the triangular window, is it possible that because the strands in a given direction have different lengths (and presumably gain), they're producing different voltages, and driving a perpendicular current that's emitting into the room?
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Re: easy sleepting enclosure

BruceM
Banned User
Karl- there is a great deal of misinformation and fear mongering about metals in general and using reflective materials for shielding.

When people fair worse with some attempt at shielding, the most likely situation is that they are sensitive to the machine oil on aluminum screen, or that alloy of aluminum, or whatever other materials they may have used. Virtually everyone with ES has some MCS, whether they know it or not. I was no different, but started with acute MCS, and didn't understand the ES aspect until it was almost too late and MS was chewing up my brain at a good clip.

The worst case scenario, EMF-wise from poorly implemented shielding is that it provides no shielding and may aggravate MCS symptoms which may be identical to your ES symptoms, especially CNS. There are exceptions, but they would be rare.  One exception would be the use of wireless transmitters inside your shielded area.  This does cause markedly stronger levels of radio waves inside the shield room, since radiation in all directions is reflected in a shield room.  I've done this experiment in my shield room home by putting a low power 2 Ghz omnidirectional transmitter in a bedroom.  The entire house reads levels comparable to being only 6 feet from the transmitter. I found no variation over 2dBm, anywhere.  If I close the un-gasketed metal door with metal jamb to the bedroom, it drops by -40dBm, and is at that level throughout the house; I found no variation over 2-3dBm.  There were no significant ''hot spots'' despite every room in the house being laminated with aluminum foil under the wall and ceiling finishes, and a foil plastic laminate under the tiled concrete floor.   Leaks from outside into the shield room are not amplified by the shield room; for example, if I open the doors of my shield room home facing the cell tower, I don't measure higher levels inside than outside. It gets lower as I go further into the house away from the open doors.  

If you feel nothing from an attempt at shielding you didn't provide nearly enough, and didn't pay enough attention to cracks, gaps, holes, etc.  Remember too that the typical faraday cage does absolutely nothing for ELF magnetic fields.  

If you feel worse from an attempt at shielding you most likely have caused an MCS reaction to the materials used.

Best wishes,
Bruce



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Re: easy sleepting enclosure

superdrove
In reply to this post by Karl
Karl,  As far as aluminum screen on the windows:

Remember,  aluminum screen is conductive.  Measure the RF levels coming through your window without the screen and then with the screen.  Quite a difference.  It does cut down the the RF considerably, but there is RF coming through the walls too, which can be picked up by the screen right next to it.  I have aluminum screen along the whole wall, around the entire room, ceiling to floor, covering the windows along the way.  And I have grounding wire attached here and there with alligator clips.  It has cut down the RF levels well enough for me to be able to live in this Microwave Ghetto.  

Of course, conductive materials or any shielding materials are frought with problems.  The wires in the walls can get EMF frequencies travellng along the screen.  EMF's from Electronics like lamps, TV, computer, etc. will travel along the screen or bounce off of it and can reflect back into the room.  Fabrics are better.  


As far as using metal grid boxes and painted cardboard for a sleeping enclosure, you would get better shielding and make the project a lot easier if you buy PVC tubing with elbows and construct a cage around your bed.  It is easy to take apart if you want it down or have to move.  Then throw shielding fabric over it like a canopy.  This also functions as a "safe room" where you can sit on your bed and do projects or exercises.  
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Re: easy sleepting enclosure

Karl
Using PVC is a nice idea.

I posted this before I bought a meter. When I picked up an ED88T, it didn't detect much radio frequency noise. What it does pick up is variable in amplitude, so my best guess is that it's coming from neighbors' cell phones and WiFi.

The worse problem here s low frequency noise, which aluminum screen doesn't block anyway (kind of a bummer).
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Re: easy sleepting enclosure

Fog Top

Karl, do you hear that low frequency noise often.  Are you the only one hearing it, or do others around you hear it, too?  Is power line communication used by your electric utility?




From: Karl [via ES] <ml-node+[hidden email]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2017 11:43 PM
To: Fog Top
Subject: [ES] Re: easy sleepting enclosure
 
Using PVC is a nice idea.

I posted this before I bought a meter. When I picked up an ED88T, it didn't detect much radio frequency noise. What it does pick up is variable in amplitude, so my best guess is that it's coming from neighbors' cell phones and WiFi.

The worse problem here s low frequency noise, which aluminum screen doesn't block anyway (kind of a bummer).


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Re: easy sleepting enclosure

Karl
I meant electromagnetic noise as per the meter. Nobody else nearby has ES.

Are you asking about infrasound? That's a real pain if you can hear it, but at least it's easier to block.
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Re: easy sleepting enclosure

Fog Top

Karl - I'm not sure if it is infrasound.  I began to hear it soon after a digital 'smart' meter was installed on my home five years ago.  Some days it's so loud that it feels like everything is vibrating.  My husband doesn't hear it, and neither do most people, but I have had several visitors  who have asked what the noise is soon after they arrive.




From: Karl [via ES] <ml-node+[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 7:39 PM
To: Fog Top
Subject: [ES] Re: easy sleepting enclosure
 
I meant electromagnetic noise as per the meter. Nobody else nearby has ES.

Are you asking about infrasound? That's a real pain if you can hear it, but at least it's easier to block.


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Re: easy sleepting enclosure

Hawk
my girlfriends fridge is making a loud high frequency noise.

some ac/dc converters also do(chargers etc). but the noise is not so loud so you have to be close to the adaptor to hear it.

If the radio and tv is on. which it is in most houses. (or people talking) it is not so easy to notice these frequencies.

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Re: easy sleepting enclosure

Karl
This post was updated on .
Hawk wrote
my girlfriends fridge is making a loud high frequency noise.

some ac/dc converters also do(chargers etc). but the noise is not so loud so you have to be close to the adaptor to hear it.

If the radio and tv is on. which it is in most houses. (or people talking) it is not so easy to notice these frequencies.
Four recommendations:

https://www.amazon.com/BUDDIES-Original-Swimming-Earplugs-Magenta/dp/B01B8B8L46/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1484506057&sr=8-1&keywords=putty+buddies

https://www.amazon.com/Natuworld-Silicone-Earplugs-Swimmers-Available/dp/B00W3DE8QY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1484506153&sr=8-1&keywords=natuworld+ear+plugs

https://www.amazon.com/Radians-Custom-Molded-Earplugs-Red/dp/B002XULPSQ/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1484506071&sr=8-2&keywords=radians+molded+ear+plugs

http://www.starkey.com/hearing-aids/hearing-protection  (not the electronic stuff)

Anything that seals well around the edges works better for me.

[edit: If you use the Natuworld swimming earplugs, it helps to plug the tube that runs down the middle. A section of the stem from a Q-tip works.]
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Re: easy sleepting enclosure

Karl
This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by Fog Top
Fog Top wrote
Karl - I'm not sure if it is infrasound.  I began to hear it soon after a digital 'smart' meter was installed on my home five years ago.  Some days it's so loud that it feels like everything is vibrating.  My husband doesn't hear it, and neither do most people, but I have had several visitors  who have asked what the noise is soon after they arrive.
Does it bother you less if you wear really stiff, heavy clothes (like heavy jeans and a jean jacket)? I used to have a really heavy denim blanket cover, and that was great for blocking infrasound. (Most new ones aren't as good.) Even audible low-frequency sound will go through all sorts of things. (There are wearable subwoofers that transmit it through your body.)

Another thing to try is to put a headband around your ears.

If it helps to cover up with something stiff, then it  might be worth trying some different clothing. The best that I've found is probably not something that you'd war every day, but I like it when I'm renovating or gardening because it also has knee and elbow pads, and you can tie off the ankle cuffs to keep out bugs and dust:

http://www.511tactical.com/tdu-shirt-long-sleeve-ripstop.html
http://www.511tactical.com/tdu-pants-ripstop.html

It fits loosely and has a tight, stiff Nylon weave, so it does a pretty good job.

A trick for sleeping is to cut two 3/4-used paper towel tubes in half and stick them under the feet of your bed as dampers.

You might also want to take a look at this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infrasound#Infrasonic_17_Hz_tone_experiment

If it's low frequency electromagnetic radiation, that's really hard to stop. It's very bad where I live. We have an automated meter, and the power comes into the building through a long plastic pipe that forms a loop because they didn't want to cut through the old part of the foundation. It looks awful, but I just cut up a bunch of steel cans and wrapped them around the pipe. That made a big difference in the ELF reading on my meter.

If you own the house, then you could install a power filter (called a "low pass filter"), but I have no idea which ones are good.
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Re: easy sleepting enclosure

Patricia
In reply to this post by superdrove
I did the pvc thing over my bed and taped mylar blankets 
(the 50 cent 4’x7’ things) over it and it worked very well.  
patricia


On Nov 28, 2016, at 5:32 AM, superdrove [via ES] <[hidden email]> wrote:

As far as using metal grid boxes and painted cardboard for a sleeping enclosure, you would get better shielding and make the project a lot easier if you buy PVC tubing with elbows and construct a cage around your bed.  It is easy to take apart if you want it down or have to move.  Then throw shielding fabric over it like a canopy.  This also functions as a "safe room" where you can sit on your bed and do projects or exercises. 


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