What is lowest unshielded RF level expected in a city?

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What is lowest unshielded RF level expected in a city?

monk
Does anyone know what a reasonable level of RF can be achieved in a city?  I live in an apartment in north Seattle and own a SLT Safe and Sound meter and a Cornet ED888T Plus meter . . . I have not found anywhere in the last week that is below High (occasionally it will drop to 'Moderate' for a millisecond) on the Safe and Sound meter.  Moderate correlates to (10-100uW/m^2) so it is only occasionally dropping below 100uW/m^2 . . . I have felt ill from certain bluetooths at times in the past and my wife is pregnant and I am hoping to mitigate exposure to the baby (and ourselves).  I have walked around my neighborhood and taken the meter to work and have not found levels less than this either.  I was considering moving to mitigate levels but I have not seen any other areas yet that are lower.  My apartment is on the 2nd story of 3 stories so the WiFi above and below contributes also, though I'm not sure how much.  Where would I look to find a low measurement?
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Re: What is lowest unshielded RF level expected in a city?

Arctic Coast
"Low people density" would be the key phrase,I think.
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Re: What is lowest unshielded RF level expected in a city?

Fog Top
In reply to this post by monk
I have been finding the same thing in cities much smaller than Seattle - a stealth attack without a shot fired.  If you have to stay in the city, perhaps find a basement dwelling.  Then you would probably need to get something like Reflectix (Lowes/Home Depot) to put over the ceiling and maybe walls to block RF from the upper or side tenants, but the levels are always lower in basements.  Regular aluminum foil will do the job too, just harder to apply to ceiling.  It can be stapled to sheet rock (staple gun needed).  When removed it leaves just tiny holes that are easily repaired.  Metal window screen could be placed over the windows.  I have done this for relatives in Las Vegas on an upper floor with a huge tower just three blocks away and got the RF so low that cell phones didn't work inside.  One supposedly non-ES occupant walked into the first room finished walked back and returned and said, "it's so peaceful in this room.  I can't believe it!".  I was later told that she goes into the room to read and relax.  The teens hate it because of no cell signal and friends calling making fun of the Star-Trek rooms.  Upper Oregon coast is very low in RF, countryside also - for now - was just there and measured.

From: monk [via ES] <ml+[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, October 8, 2018 4:50 AM
To: Fog Top
Subject: [ES] What is lowest unshielded RF level expected in a city?
 
Does anyone know what a reasonable level of RF can be achieved in a city?  I live in an apartment in north Seattle and own a SLT Safe and Sound meter and a Cornet ED888T Plus meter . . . I have not found anywhere in the last week that is below High (occasionally it will drop to 'Moderate' for a millisecond) on the Safe and Sound meter.  Moderate correlates to (10-100uW/m^2) so it is only occasionally dropping below 100uW/m^2 . . . I have felt ill from certain bluetooths at times in the past and my wife is pregnant and I am hoping to mitigate exposure to the baby (and ourselves).  I have walked around my neighborhood and taken the meter to work and have not found levels less than this either.  I was considering moving to mitigate levels but I have not seen any other areas yet that are lower.  My apartment is on the 2nd story of 3 stories so the WiFi above and below contributes also, though I'm not sure how much.  Where would I look to find a low measurement?


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Re: What is lowest unshielded RF level expected in a city?

Arctic Coast
"..One supposedly non-ES occupant walked into the first room finished walked back and returned and said, "it's so peaceful in this room.  I can't believe it!".  I was later told that she goes into the room to read and relax. "

Well done,Fog Top :)

That might be a way of getting the non-es-people pulling in the right direction,
one relaxed person at a time.
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Re: What is lowest unshielded RF level expected in a city?

Marc Martin
Administrator
In reply to this post by Fog Top
On October  8, "Fog Top [via ES]" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Upper Oregon coast is very low in RF, countryside also - for now - was just
> there and measured.
 
I'm sure that's true, but every time we go on a vacation on the upper Oregon coast,
I feel terrible wherever we're staying... but I'm sure that's due to the electronics
or miswiring that's in the house we're staying at.

Certainly I feel fine while walking on the beach.  :-)

Marc
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Re: What is lowest unshielded RF level expected in a city?

Fog Top
  • every time we go on a vacation on the upper Oregon coast,
    I feel terrible wherever we're staying... but I'm sure that's due to the electronics
    or miswiring that's in the house we're staying at -   
    Marc, my guess is it's the PLC - power line communication - system/meters that they're using in that area that bothers you.  It's bothersome to many ES people, yet I know a few who don't feel it at all.

From: Marc Martin [via ES] <ml+[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, October 8, 2018 4:22 PM
To: Fog Top
Subject: [ES] Re: What is lowest unshielded RF level expected in a city?
 
On October  8, "Fog Top [via ES]" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Upper Oregon coast is very low in RF, countryside also - for now - was just
> there and measured.
 
I'm sure that's true, but every time we go on a vacation on the upper Oregon coast,
I feel terrible wherever we're staying... but I'm sure that's due to the electronics
or miswiring that's in the house we're staying at.

Certainly I feel fine while walking on the beach.  :-)

Marc



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Re: What is lowest unshielded RF level expected in a city?

Karl
In reply to this post by monk
I haven't been in Seattle in ten years, but I felt very uncomfortable in Wallingford and not as bad in Issiquah. Much better a few miles outside of the latter.

Right now I'm on a mountain outside of San Jose Costa Rica and it isn't as good as I'd hoped: -60 dBm.
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Re: What is lowest unshielded RF level expected in a city?

Marc Martin
Administrator
Seattle is a lot worse than it used to be since they installed wireless AMI smart meters in the past year.  If you are looking for a relatively quiet place to take comparison readings, I would suggest driving east on Interstate 90 until you are east of Issaquah.  For example, Fall City or Preston should be pretty quiet.
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Re: What is lowest unshielded RF level expected in a city?

Marc Martin
Administrator
Or, if you don't want to drive that far, drive west to Carkeek Park in Seattle.  It's practically like being in a forest there, yet you are still within Seattle city limits.
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Re: What is lowest unshielded RF level expected in a city?

monk
Thanks a lot for the information guys!  It sounds like I won't see much improvement moving to a ground floor or different neighborhood, that would be no easy feat.  I will continue the exploration survey though and see if there is a gem location somewhere.