Recommended computer monitors; intro: my light-sensitivity

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Recommended computer monitors; intro: my light-sensitivity

Puff
Computer monitors:

What computer monitors would you recommend for me? I'm quite light-sensitive, especially to fluorscent light (it gives me a lot of issues, and they don't all have to do with my eyes). I tend to prefer IPS over other technologies, but it's not a definite must, if the picture is good and not washed out. An LED backlight would be fine, but a lightless display would be even better (should an affordable one miraculously exist). I'd prefer a monitor with a maximum size of 24" (smaller is great, as long as it's not a battery powered, portable one). Touch screen is a plus, but not required. I'm thinking a higher refresh rate would be more beneficial for prolonged use (programming, writing, etc.) It should cost less than $200 (ideally much less). the ability to hook up a Fire Stick or Roku player to it is a definite plus (but not required). I'd prefer it not to have built-in speakers unless it's a TV (but if it has them, it should be easy to make sure they stay off). If it has blue light filtration, that's excellent.

What do you all like to use for desktop computers?

Introduction to my ES:

I don't think I have sensitivities to electronics generally, nor microwaves, x-ray scans, nor cell phone towers—but I do have sensitivities to all visible light (if there's enough of it), and to Wi-Fi radio waves. Fluorescent bothers me most, followed by incandescent, followed by LED, followed by halogen (halogen is my favorite for indoor lighting, but even it can give me issues). Sunlight bothers me if it's filtered through a window (not sure why, but it does), or if it's extremely bright and combined with residual forest fire smoke (that fatigues me a lot). UV doesn't seem to bother me, particularly. Turning the Wi-Fi off seems to reduce my sensitivity to fluorescent lights, as does going outside in the sun (to a greater or lesser degree, depending).

I take vitamin D3, white mulberries, and I sometimes wear Dewalt red laser glasses to help with my sensitivities and such; I've found that sleeping when it's dark helps, too, although going to bed before I'm tired can contribute to other issues, sometimes—I have trouble getting to bed at a decent time. Also, eating thoroughly baked sweet potatoes with butter (a couple large ones), and taking niacin helps me recover from fatigue caused by using Hulda Clark Zappers: I try not to use those on myself, these days, which is just as well, because I might have epilepsy (I might not, but I have a lot of symptoms of gelastic epilepsy, temporal lobe epilepsy, and some of ecstatic epilepsy, as well as symptoms of Tourette Syndrome, which seem to combine with the other symptoms for an interesting result; my light sensitivity, especially with regard to fluorescent light, provokes pulsed intelligent involuntary movements, accompanied by euphoria and other things; it also provokes an inability to move, at times, and an impaired ability to move at other times).

Recently, I began experimenting with larger doses of kelp than I had tried before (I read that kelp helps some people with their electrical sensitivities—plus, iodine has a lot of other benefits, and kelp has a lot of minerals). I notice positive results from the kelp with regard to clarity and feelings of well-being, but I'm still figuring out its affect on light-sensitivity. I'm thinking it does impact it, however. The light just makes me feel tired, today, fortunately (but I should be tired).
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Re: Recommended computer monitors; intro: my light-sensitivity

Karl
Puff, I've looked for a lot of the same features and they are hard to find :-/

A company called Pixel Qi used to make backlight-free displays and Sharp allegedly still does, but it's hard to find either for sale.

High refresh rate displays are more common, and I think you can find something under $200.  (The forums and articles at blurbusters.com might help.).  I use an Epson PowerLite 475W 85 Hz projector that I paid $120 for a couple of years ago.  They show up for $100 or maybe a little less now.  Unfortunately they draw way too much power to run from batteries, and they use metal halide lamps that put out significant RFI up into the X band (detectable with a handheld radar receiver).  Fixing* that is a chore, but you can sit far away from it and use an infrared keyboard and mouse.

As far as lighting that's easier on the eyes, you could try powering your halogens with DC.  But they would drain batteries quickly, and rectifiers usually emit a lot of RFI when the diodes switch.

*You could kill a few birds with one stone by putting your computer and a projector in a metal box with just a small hole for the projector lens, and adding feedthrough filters to the hot, neutral and ground wires where they enter the box. Then you could either use infrared input devices, or PS/2 with feedthrough filters spliced in where the cable leaves the box.  (You can't add filtration to a USB cable without violating the standard, but it might work anyway.)

That might work for the rectifier, too.
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Re: Recommended computer monitors; intro: my light-sensitivity

Marc Martin
Administrator
In reply to this post by Puff
On my most recent computer monitor upgrade, I went through almost 10 different monitors before settling on one that was as good or better than my previous monitor.  However, the things that I was looking for are different than the things you are looking for -- for example, I have long established that lower display refresh rates are more tolerable to me than high refresh rates, so there is no way that I'd go above 60hz for that.  

For me, the things I look for are:
-- large-ish display, so I am not tempted to lean forward to see the fine details.  For my current monitor, I settled at 28" diagonal as being about "just right" from a distance / my field of view standpoint.
- VGA (analog) input, as I have never found a case where digital video cables are as tolerable to me as analog cables
- good image scaler in the monitor, as I have never found a monitor that I can tolerate when feeding it anything more than 768 x 1366 pixel resolution.  The resolution of the monitor itself does not seem to matter, rather it is the resolution I'm feeding into it that seems to matter.  So my current monitor is native 1920x1080, but I'm only feeding it 768x1366 and letting the monitor scale it.
- if it's got an LED backlight, then it needs to be flicker-free at all levels of dimming.  LED lights that flicker put out a lot of EMF/RF.
- I need to be able to calibrate it to keep the color temperature at a comfortable level.  So the settings menu needs to have levels for red/blue/green adjustment.  Then I can hardware color calibrate it to 6500K (for color accuracy), or lower if I want to reduce the amount of blue light.
- Good viewing angle is a plus, so either an IPS or VA panel instead of a TN panel.
- No need or desire for a touch screen
- No need or desire for higher display refresh rates (heck, I even tried to run one at 24 frames per second in the past)
- For some counter-intuitive reason, all of my most tolerable monitors have the power supply built into the screen, with a 3-prong AC outlet to the wall.  That is, no separate power brick.  Not a requirement, it's just that all of the best monitors I've tried in the past are this way.

With all that, my current monitor is a BenQ 28" GW2870H.

Now, that monitor is no longer sold today (for it is now a few years old), although I see that BenQ has some more recent 27" and 28" models that I'd be tempted to try if I needed to replace this one.  Or I'd see if I could find the exact same monitor used on eBay.  :-)

Marc
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Re: Recommended computer monitors; intro: my light-sensitivity

Puff
In reply to this post by Karl
Thanks for the thorough reply! That gives me some food for thought. :)

You guys are awesome.
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Re: Recommended computer monitors; intro: my light-sensitivity

Karl
I appreciated your posts with the cell maps also :)

BTW, are you a developer?
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Re: Recommended computer monitors; intro: my light-sensitivity

Karl
In reply to this post by Marc Martin
Marc Martin wrote
The resolution of the monitor itself does not seem to matter, rather it is the resolution I'm feeding into it that seems to matter.  So my current monitor is native 1920x1080, but I'm only feeding it 768x1366 and letting the monitor scale it.
Marc, I noticed something in a store a few months ago that might be a good compromise:

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20130307210110AAVgVXD

https://www.lg.com/us/tvs/lg-55UH7650-4k-uhd-tv

(They accept a 60 Hz signal from your computer, but the display itself refreshes at 120 Hz.  The result is that the frequency of the signal on the VGA cable is unchanged, but the screen flicker is twice as fast.  For me that made it a lot less noticeable.)
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Re: Recommended computer monitors; intro: my light-sensitivity

Puff
This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by Marc Martin
Thanks for the insightful reply. :)

Huh. Well, I don't actually know if higher/lower refresh rates affect me much differently. I just read somewhere that higher ones were better for some uses. I guess I'll have to test it out. Maybe I better use the refresh rate I grew up with, in the meantime.

The main thing I need to avoid is the fluorescent backlight. I don't have a lot of experience with different LED monitors, but my tablet's is fine. My mom's Vizeo monitor with an LED backlight is a whole lot better than my current Samsung 2233SW (which has a fluorescent backlight); they're both probably about 22 to 24 inches.

My mom's monitor/TV fatigues me at close range if I use it for long (without protective glasses), but no other real problems, as far as ES sensitivity goes. (However, I don't recommend it for an optimal viewing experience, as a TV from a distance, either.)

My Samsung 2233SW monitor makes it so the day after I use it, I have burning eyes, a headache, and sinus issues (for almost the whole day); the day of use, it just makes my eyes feel weird and gives me a strange feeling. Not sure if I mentioned that already. I can use it for up to few minutes a day while wearing my red Dewalt laser glasses without issues. I usually use it with the colors inverted to reduce the light output, too.

I had a latpop with an LED backlight, and that was great. But it 's gone now. My laptops with fluorescent backlights were a lot better than my current monitor (even if they did stimulate involuntary movements, and make me feel not so great—but better than a sinus headach and burning eyes), but they're gone now too. I could use the laptops for fairly long periods by comparison. So, I figure the difference was probably the size of the screen.

I'm thinking about a Raspberry Pi monitor. Those are very small (a little too small for the price, but I think it has a touchscreen, which probably makes up for that, value-wise; it's maybe about $75; well within my budget). But, it'd probably be better than using my tablet (productivity-wise). However, the tiny screen's effect on productivity/multitasking (seeing open tab titles and such, when I have lots of tabs open) is my main concern there.

I've only checked monitors on Amazon, so far, this week. So, I should look around some more.

If you're wondering why I have a Samsung 2233SW when I used to have a laptop with an LED backlight, it's because I thought the Samsung had an LED backlight when I got it, and I gat rid of the laptop (or else the power cord broke; I forgot which) before I learned that the Samsung bothered me so much.
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Re: Recommended computer monitors; intro: my light-sensitivity

Marc Martin
Administrator
Oh, and I should also note that at my workplace, I'm using a Dell P2317H (23" diagonal).  This is at least a current model.  And I personally find it tolerable -- when I feed a 768x1366 signal with a VGA cable.  :-)   It's also flicker fee, LED, IPS panel, 3-prong AC cord.  But no touch screen or high refresh rate.

Marc
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Re: Recommended computer monitors; intro: my light-sensitivity

Puff
This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by Karl
Me? Thanks, if so.

I'm a hobbyist computer programmer (mostly Python, but some other things to a much lesser degree). I'm really into computer software generally (and I use Xubuntu Linux as my OS of choice), but I don't know much about computer hardware (other than some basic specs for traits I like), and I know even less about electronics. I have a sibling who's fairly well-versed in stuff like that, though.
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Re: Recommended computer monitors; intro: my light-sensitivity

Karl
Yes, those were helpful links :)

I always liked XFCE, and it runs pretty well on BSD too.

There are a couple of other boards that you might like:

https://www.hardkernel.com/shop/odroid-n2-with-4gbyte-ram/

https://www.pine64.org/rockpro64/

The N2 takes less than 7 watts with all 6 cores maxed out and will run straight from a battery as long as the voltage stays between 7.5 and 18V.  The RockPro64 is a little slower and draws more power, but it has a PCIe port and a lithium battery port with a charger and voltage regulator (like a laptop).
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Re: Recommended computer monitors; intro: my light-sensitivity

Puff
This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by Puff
What do you think of the HP P204? It has an LED backlight, 19.4" screen, 60hz, TN (not IPS), 19.4", no touchscreen, and is only $60, with free shipping (from the HP store). It's not exactly what I'm looking for, but it could meet my most important needs, sans blue-blocking (LED, price, and screen size)—I might take it, if there are no obvious flaws. The reviews are positive, but don't offer information about flicker (and the fact that I can get it directly from HP adds a little confidence to the purchase). Walmart says it's anti-glare. Here is another page with additional specs: https://www.cnet.com/products/hp-p204-led-monitor-19-5/

Here are some others I'm looking at (I saw more, but need to find the links, still):

* https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07PY6SS73/ (Not sure about the refresh rate, and it is portable, but you can plug it in to power it, which is what matters. LED. No touchscreen. 59/60hz. 11.6". Reportedly no flicker issues. $106.99.)
* https://www.walmart.com/ip/7-Inch-HD-IPS-Capacitive-Touchscreen-Display-Monitor-1024-600-Resolution-USB-HD-Interface-Black-Shell-Case-Base-Bracket-Screen-Compatible-Raspberry-Pi/575293008
* Elecrow 11.6": No touchscreen, and probably has a regular refresh rate, but otherwise sounds great
* This out-of-stock product (11.6", 10-point touch, IPS, and probably a regular refresh rate): https://www.seeedstudio.com/11-6inch-HDMI-LCD-H-with-case-1920-1080-IPS-Capacitive-touch-Support-Raspberry-Pi-4-p-4377.html
* https://www.walmart.com/ip/HP-22vc-21-5-FullHD-1920x1080-LED-LCD-IPS-Monitor/51774002

With regard to portable monitors, I only meant to exclude those that you have to charge.
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Re: Recommended computer monitors; intro: my light-sensitivity

Puff
This post was updated on .
The old LED laptop I had (well, I still have it, it turns out) was a Dell Inspiron 3520, with a semi-broken power cord. The screen didn't bother me on it. I'm not sure if it was TN, IPS or something else. My tablet's screen is IPS.

Maybe I should use that old laptop in the meantime, if it still works (if I can find the power cord). The laptop's issue is that it turns off randomly at times (the battery doesn't work, and the power cord stops working on odd occasions, such as when jostled).
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Re: Recommended computer monitors; intro: my light-sensitivity

sailplane
In reply to this post by Puff
Puff wrote
Me? Thanks, if so.

I'm a hobbyist computer programmer (mostly Python, but some other things to a much lesser degree). I'm really into computer software generally (and I use Xubuntu Linux as my OS of choice), but I don't know much about computer hardware (other than some basic specs for traits I like), and I know even less about electronics. I have a sibling who's fairly well-versed in stuff like that, though.
I'm using Kubuntu for now but I want to try Arch Linux. Each OS seems to make my T440s emit different amounts of RF. Ubuntu has been the best so far. Windows is quite terrible.

I've been programming for more than half of my life.. I can't use any external monitor for long. Just my laptop, and I use safety glasses when using any LED monitors, it helps a lot. Any cheap plastic safety glasses seem to work, I think there is a small amount of UV coming out of the LEDs that the glasses block.
Blue light blocking glasses should help similarly.
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Re: Recommended computer monitors; intro: my light-sensitivity

Puff
This post was updated on .
Thanks for the input. That's good to know about different OSes affecting the RF.

I have a few kinds of blue-blocking glasses. The Dewalt red laser glasses block both blue and green light very well (but they make things pretty dark); they had a previous model that I liked a little bit better in a few ways (but these are still great). I have some amber glasses that are decent (and look like construction glasses, which cover all around the eyes), and then some that look clear, but the black plastic frame reacts with my skin. They all help, though, but the clear-looking ones make things look really bright after a while, and transitioning between wearing the clear ones and not wearing them bothers my eyes.

I've got some other red ones, which are okay, but the Dewalt ones and the amber ones are preferable, IMO. They both block blue light better than the big red ones.

The Dewalt ones are in the upper-right:
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Re: Recommended computer monitors; intro: my light-sensitivity

Puff
This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by Karl
Karl wrote
Yes, those were helpful links :)

I always liked XFCE, and it runs pretty well on BSD too.

There are a couple of other boards that you might like:
Cool. I'm glad they were helpful! :)

Thanks for those links you gave, too.

I like XFCE a lot, because it doesn't get in my way (nor does it fill up my screen), it's very configurable, it works well with my hardware, and keyboard shortcuts work out well with it. Plus, it's fast and doesn't use a lot of resources, and doesn't try to be user-friendly and graphic intensive at the cost of performance, configurability, and speed of use.

I liked Debian, GnewSense, and Ubuntu with Gnome before Ubuntu switched to Unity, but I think I like XFCE even better than the older Gnome now (although I hadn't always). I used to just use XFCE when I had to, due to my computers being slow (but now I'd use it even on a top-of-the-line computer). Puppy Linux is fun to play with, but it's been a while since I've used it.
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Re: Recommended computer monitors; intro: my light-sensitivity

Puff
This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by sailplane
sailplane wrote

I use safety glasses when using any LED monitors, it helps a lot. Any cheap plastic safety glasses seem to work, I think there is a small amount of UV coming out of the LEDs that the glasses block. …
Are you saying that regular clear safety glasses help? Like, those that look like my amber ones (but clear)? I'll have to try that and see what happens.

I've tried regular sunglasses, which do help a little.
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Re: Recommended computer monitors; intro: my light-sensitivity

Karl
In reply to this post by sailplane
I do pretty well with the "indoor/outdoor" silvered lenses. My favorite is the Elvex SG-200 Elite, mainly because they fit me.  There are lots of others that might fit someone else better.
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Re: Recommended computer monitors; intro: my light-sensitivity

Puff
This post was updated on .
Karl wrote
I do pretty well with the "indoor/outdoor" silvered lenses. My favorite is the Elvex SG-200 Elite, mainly because they fit me. …
I can appreciate that! Most glasses don't fit on my nose properly, such that I have to keep them further away from my eyes so my eyelashes from my right eye don't touch the lense. I don't have that problem with the amber safety glasses (they rest further down my nose and have deeper lenses), but I do with the Dewalt ones, and it's irritating, and the big red safety glasses feel off-center (even if they don't touch my eyelashes). They should make big safety glasses with the same lense material.
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Re: Recommended computer monitors; intro: my light-sensitivity

Karl
In reply to this post by Puff
Yeah, I like the smaller panel and the sense of 'openness' it gives the desktop. Mostly I like that it doesn't bog down or crash my system.

I liked Gnome 2 aesthetically, but it took a long time for apps like GIMP and OpenOffice and Firefox to integrate with it.  Most of them ran just as well under XFCE.  Debian has always been one of the best, especially the way it handles packages and updates.
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Re: Recommended computer monitors; intro: my light-sensitivity

Karl
In reply to this post by Puff
The SG-200s are wide. Some of their other models are narrower.  I think Elvex does a better job of making them look like sunglasses than companies like 3M, so I like them for biking.
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