Any one tried living in a cave?

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Any one tried living in a cave?

Plop Plop
I have a cave here in France and it blocks out radio waves beautifully.  The Maire lets me use it. It was his families home.  There are 60000 people in caves  rock cut houses around me here.  The stone is limestone. It does cut out the radio and MWs but it is cut into a hill. I have to screen the windows.   Has anyone got a meter reading from deep in the earth. What numbers did you get?   Is there a lower deep earth reading than the lowest reading on the surface?  Is there an electro smog ether now?  Is it the same all over the world?

 I'm on 20mV/m   62mA/m  and 1,3 microW/MxM  But this is in my house with everything on and it does not get lower outside any where except my Faraday lorry which is 1. microW/MxM

Please what are your lowest readings?

I think there is great therapeutic value in retreating into a cave to let your body disconnect from its usurper signals it has been confused by. I believe that there is a maturation and identification component in cell maturation and that this can be reversed by sleeping in 0 radiations, which is  when the body regenerates its self. The susceptibility may not go away but if you only go in radiations in the day you can resist the signal take over that is EHS.
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Re: Any one tried living in a cave?

Jinna
I would love to live in a cave!

I saw some French houses, at the coast, where they build beautiful houses, quite comfortable.

I guess it depends from the only side Esmog will come from: the openings.

Surely, it's much easier to block ESmog from one side, than from many sides. I'm guessing, but I suppose it will be much easier to use anything such as aluminum or silver or stainless steel grids or painting on one wall, then to do an almost impossible thing in a normal condition (where we get multiple signals from all sides, and they end up rebounding in our shields).

I hope someone can tell you, but I'm sure the moment you enter deeper inside, or sleep behind a wall, you'll get less radiation than when sleeping near a window or door (if not metallic).

I guess you could buy a ES meter or ask someone to test for you?
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Re: Any one tried living in a cave?

Merializer
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Re: Any one tried living in a cave?

earthworm
In reply to this post by Plop Plop
"There are 60000 people in caves  rock cut houses around me here."

Wow, where is that in France ?
I've been all over the country, but never seen anything big like this.
Might want to get a cave as well, sounds great.
One just needs the shield one side.
I do not fancy to live in a faraday cage, the idea is too unnatural.

20mV/m is not that low though, for the countryside.
I guess you can get that down substantially.
It depends ion the thickness of the walls and "roof".

But i worry more about TETRA and tv-broadcasting at lower frequencies that your meter does not register.

Most emf-pollution people bring into their homes themselves.
If the house itself is fine, best is to cut off all electricity at night, except for clean DC ( like from a car-battery ).

"if you only go in radiations in the day you can resist the signal take over that is EHS. "
That's an essential point.

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Re: Any one tried living in a cave?

Karl
In reply to this post by Plop Plop
There are a few interesting underground buildings near me:

http://www.subsurfacebuildings.com/BuildingUndergroundwithaLightTouch.html

I doubt that any of them are low-EMF, but some of the design features could work for us:

light paths

light collector

If you have an effective light collector, you can get rid of windows entirely and have your living area completely surrounded by electrical steel.

There's also an underground city in Australia called Coober Pedy:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coober_Pedy

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=coober+pedy&t=hb&iax=images&ia=images

Coober Pedy

Coober Pedy 2

Coober Pedy 3
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Re: Any one tried living in a cave?

Jinna
https://www.pinterest.fr/pin/537828380476313982/

these are some of the French cave houses you can find.

They look gorgeous.

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Re: Any one tried living in a cave?

Plop Plop
In reply to this post by earthworm
Its hard to see them I agree but hey are there. Cabes are hard to photo too. Less invasive to the environment. I'm in the Loire valley.  Limestone, and dead easy to cut a house into, and they pay you for the rock so you get paid to make a house. The stones are worth E30 each as you get them out.  No life time of mortgages where you pay 3 times the purchase price. No building regs. No planning permissions. No taxes as they are exempt. What a better life. You can buy old caves IE 1 acre for E10K with land above in Tours suburb for example. WOWS!  
     You interest me as you seem to know what you are talking about. I would love to pick your brain.

You say "But i worry more about TETRA and tv-broadcasting at lower frequencies that your meter does not register."  I have a bunch of meters but I'm never sure how much I am picking up. Do you know about spectrum analysers?  I have been looking at a

 8GHz 1-8000Mhz OLED RF Power Meter -55~-5 dBm + Sofware RF Attenuation Value

on eBay but cannot find out exactly what it does and how I could use it to identify signals like a meter. Any thoughts.  

The French dont have TETRA but rather TETRAPOL but it seems to be less invasive and probably does not work in rural areas most of the time as nothing here does. They call us debrache which means uneconomic or just ignore them.

The problem I have is screening for AM signals as they are what drive me mad and I cannot stop. Like TETRA they are penetrating.  Just about any thing will stop micro waves just ordinary walls. What causes your problems. Do you know?
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Re: Any one tried living in a cave?

Plop Plop
In reply to this post by Karl
What was that light reflecting building for?  I have been in some of the old regional control bunkers in the UK but they were well buried.  Light from 12vDC and smd is no problem with nothing but a tiny magnetic field. Natural light is fascinating in that our eyes see colour and not light. Something forgotten by the SAD people.
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Re: Any one tried living in a cave?

Plop Plop
In reply to this post by earthworm
Did you know that 1/3 of all gross fixed capitol formations  and a half of all new building in the Soviet Union before the collapse were underground to save on the heating bills.  
    The French are very embarrassed to admit the live underground, literally an underclass. They wont talk about it. There are a number of fan clubs on the internet though.  I think the number for all France is 120 000 and there are a similar number in Spain. Many in Gaudix.
    My house here is a paint Faraday thingy because I am not keen on the the refections from metal. My home made paint is much more absorbing.
I went to my cave here yesterday and and it was robbed while I was not there. DAW!  They don't seem to like the ginger English much here.
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Re: Any one tried living in a cave?

Karl
In reply to this post by Plop Plop
Plop Plop wrote
What was that light reflecting building for?
It's just contains some offices and classrooms at the University of Minnesota. It was built as part of a government project to test ways of making buildings more energy-efficient and space-efficient.

The ground under Downtown Minneapolis is limestone with a layer of sandstone underneath. So once you cut through the upper layer it's very easy to make caves and tunnels.

There are also a lot of natural caves, and one nearby with a restaurant in it:

Stillwater cave
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Re: Any one tried living in a cave?

earthworm
This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by Plop Plop
Somehow i mixed up two messages, thinking that you used the gigahertz meter in the video-link by Merializer.
As far as my experience and impression go, all affordable meters are unreliable.
The "1-500Mhz digital OLED RF Power Meter" seems better to check out AM signals, with an additional long antenna.
The quality is likely to be crappy, but it is cheap, and upto -70 dBm is a good start, if this is a bit real.
Another meter to consider is this thing, to be connected to a pc : http://es-forum.com/RTL-SDR-td4031391.html
I've two spectrum analysers, a spectran and a rf explorer, the first gives annoying ghost-readings and is a pain in the arse, the second is slower and probably more unprecise, btw both produce emf themselves.
But common cheap emf-meters ( cornets, emfields ) are likely not doing much under 700 MHz, despite what is advertised.
The digital audio broadcasting is of course much worse, soon it will be all over France too.
http://www.frontiersmart.com/sites/default/files/17%2005%2003%20DAB%20-%20platform%20for%20Europe.pdf
Although lower frequencies are harder to shield, a few meter of stone will still help definitedly, as living in a valley will.
I tested TETRA in a seacontainer, about 25 dBm was blocked except at one frequency, 384.3 MHz, at which it came in the same ( at -69 dBm ), very strange indeed.
Another problem one may have to deal with in France is their smart meter system that will transport the data on the powerlines, i guess leading to dirty electricty fields ( in the kHz range ) even in the streets, so just about everywhere you go if following a road, with 95 % coverage planned for 2020.
Debrache is perhaps debranché or disconnected.
My french is pretty bad ( still working on it ... ) but i have a place more to the east, so am trying to figure out what you mean here.
The french are cats, they may sneak into any house and steal the meat, but do not mind your business, unlike the germans that are a pack of dogs that want you to follow rules brainlessly, to generalize the picture not in order to be as correct as possible but for practical reasons, France is on the whole a nice area to be, very relaxed, in the countryside at least.
Another good thing about caves is that one can fortify them more easily, most houses have too many weak spots, for instance if i would loose the keys i'll climb a ladder and just lift some tiles, it's hard to secure a house without immediate neighbours or high tech shit.






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Re: Any one tried living in a cave?

Plop Plop
The "1-500Mhz digital OLED RF Power Meter" .... can I just connect an antenna and usb power and get power readings for each frequency block please?  How big would the jumps be? Does it cover every thing in the jumps?  I wish I could find someone who has tried one. I spent hours trying to find a review that is not rubbish.

I have a gigahertze solutions thingy but it is all a bit too fragile for me. I am fascinated that you can stop TETRA with a lorry container.  I live in a field but we have a mast at the top of the hill about 1km away. Every one on the farm is ill.  Its a nightmare.  I just had to get away. The worst bit was a neighbors Plasma TV. My AM radio would not work anywhere on the farm. The solar panels were like radio masts. Dirty inverters and charge controllers are a really big problem too. I looked like I had MS. So much for healthy country living.
    I have no French AM radio signals here. We were the second to last place in France to get a TV signal. There is no digital DAB radio signal here. (It is very penetrating and I cannot stop it in Cornwall. I have to curl up in extra thick bubble wrap until the AM signal stops.)  The French TV is now all digital HD only.  I get a lot of AM radio from Spain and Italy and the UK when the weather is bad and evenings and weekends. It does my head in and my tinnitus screams.  I dream of the day when AM radio is banned. The French seem to know about the bad health effects of AM.  I dont get any AM signal  in the cave ever. I go in there to hide from it. Do you know how widespread AM sickness is? I cannot find any one else who has it. Are they all dead?  Micro waves wipe me out totally but in a different way.
   I live in one of the 3 department where you have the right to refuse a smart meter. I am frightened though.  There really is all hell up here about them here.  There are no standards for dirty electricity that I can find here. I have been to the Lecky office to talk to them about it but they were rude and proper racist. They sent a man round who said in 30 years no one but me had made a complaint.  I showed him how filthy the lecky coming in was and proved it. After condemning my wirings I never heard from them again. Now I use shielded cables and a linear mag power transformer to clean it.  I have 250000 sq ft of solar panels and a bunch of wind turbines on my hill here. It was not from them though it was from another  neighbors Plasma TV here. The French Health Service will turn up and take away Plasma TVs as a health risk here. What does that tell you!

The USB TV tuner thingys seem to be brill but a bit too clever for me probably. I keep seeing them on Youtube but I think if they require geeky tweeking I would probably naf it up.  Arn't the TETRA  about 900mhz? I know it varies. I find all this modulation thingy confusing too. I guess I'm stuck with bolometer readings.  I dream of living in Africa cos they would nick any antennas so there is still only 3% coverage there. And they don't seem to want to "improve" things much there.
    Thanks for your advice and its good to meet you.
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Re: Any one tried living in a cave?

earthworm
It's a bit hard to follow your whole message, but i'll ignore the less clear parts.
I do not have any of these ultra cheap tiny meters but they are worth trying out.
TETRA comes in at between 380 and 400 MHz plus around 170 MHz now too.
I do not understand why only one signal at 384 MHz was not shielded by the steel.
Maybe finding an entry after reflection on a piece of metal underneath the container ( the floor is wood ).
But the level inside appeared to be not a single dBm less, so i remains a mystery.
We are talking about 2 mm steel here, this should shield lower TETRA and also AM substantially, despite of some small cracks near the doors.
Sick or not, few people do realize any impact of EMF, and those that do usually only worry about wifi and mobile phones.
I guess "Lecky" is "Linky" , the french term for their plc smart meter.
I plan to keep that meter, if it arrives, disconnected except for charging up 12 volt DC batteries when needed.
I may have some solar panels on the roof with simple regulators against over-charge, no converters to 220 volt AC.
Actually even the router runs on 12 volt DC, everything could apart from a washing machine, well, in the old days that was no problem so we can do without one too.
You dont get any AM signal  in the cave ever : that is promising.
It's certainly an interesting option.
I would prefer a cave further away from telecom masts though, and not too close to neighbours.

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Re: Any one tried living in a cave?

Plop Plop
I don't know all about tetra but It was designed to be maximally penetrating so the carrier wave can penetrate 20 ft of rock.  The modulated mind control frequency reserved by the military is 16 hz or close.  The floor of the container is a problem. I make my own conductive paint using graphite and carbon black. It seems to work and is much cheaper than any thing else. I work in a scrap yard in France so get cheap metals here but no metals are very cheap.
   Sorry lecky is electricity.  I was an inner London squatters candle maker for 20 years in fact I still make candles for a living. Its surprising how many people were living without lecky in London. I left when wifi turned up. I wonder what happened to them.
    Charge controllers for solar panels can be a real cause of dirty electricity.  Mc Gee says THEY are part of a plot to kill the hippies as the new communists. They lowered the electrical safety standards deliberately  just to do it to them. There are clean ones but they are hard to find. I wrote about it on mast-victims.org.  French solar is always extremely clean. They really do do it properly. Have you tested your panels with a radio? I know so many hippies who are ill from their panels. They do not listen to me much. Its hard to watch.
       There are loads of brill caves here but the French are a funny racist bunch.  Nice to your face but tardy. They are actually rock cut houses. Mostly in villages. (Caves are much cheaper. They are nearly giving them away.)  Doue la Fontaine seems to have loads if you ever get a chance to look round. There is a underground zoo there and cathedrals.
       The problem is how MWs propogate as they go round corners so well.  Do you know how to best filter dirt out of incoming mains cables?  I have used RFIs inside on 13anp cables. I have read that capacitive filters dont work so well because they just change the frequencies. Any thoughts? Torroidal coils? Does shielded cable cut out any of the dirt frequencies.
    I want to live in the French zone blanc but I have never met ruder or more racist  French people.  They told me to bugger of to Italy. I am all right here for now though.  I do have a real fear that I will end up an old man huddled up in a cave though. The French health service does seem vastly less corrupt the the UK so there is still hope here. I do not think of my self as ill but rather the world is just too polluted and no one cares yet because they are covering up the health statistics so well.
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Re: Any one tried living in a cave?

Karl
This post was updated on .
Plop Plop, if you want to block mains noise, you can use an AC low pass filter.

Most of them use some combination of common mode inductors and capacitors, and multi-stage filters often have one or more resistors to limit resonance.

Ideally you would want to block differential noise as well, but it's hard to do that on mains power because the high current saturates the inductors. This is the only manufacturer I've come across that tries, and you can see in their datasheets that they're only able to get 30-40 microhenries of inductance:

http://www.qualtekusa.com/products_chassis_mount_filters.php

You can also make your own filters, and in that case you can use toroids instead or E-shaped cores and make a few other tweaks.

I use pairs of small, low permeability toroids (Epcos B64290L0618X027) in parallel (2 on hot, 2 on neutral) for differential mode filtration because the math works out better. Still, that only gives me 1.9 millihenries and it saturates at less than one ampere, so I only use it to filter my computer and appliances. You're on 230V, so the saturation will be a little less of a problem, but still too low to filter a whole house.

For common mode chokes, I use a bifilar-wound high permeability toroid (Epcos B64290L0674X038) with 30 loops (counting both hot and neutral). I tried symmetrical winding at first because that gives you some differential inductance at high current levels, but the stray magnetic flux from the core is much worse. There's another type of winding that might be better, but I haven't tried it yet:

balanced winding
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Re: Any one tried living in a cave?

earthworm
In reply to this post by Plop Plop

Well, France is the center and source of all human civilisation, after all.
These arrogant british snobs should be taught a lesson, and start with speaking proper french, or at least try to.
The french are always polite, only except for behind your back, but who cares if you do not hear much of it ?
What you hear about others is usually quite extreme but funny b.s. .
But do not worry about racist behaviour, they are actually pretty civilised, tolerant and easy-going.
Some people might be offended by this nationalistic talk, but any statement is a inaccurate anyway, and everyone will interprete  words in his own way also, basically human linguistic communication is a joke to begin with.
Doue la Fontaine is 600 km away from my dwelling in France, but i will check it out some day.
Perhaps in this area folks are more rude and raw, which can be refreshing and interesting, to see it from another angle.
Capacitors cause magnetic fields while eliminating electrical fields, but even at the latter they can perform ugly.
http://www.conradbiologic.com/articles/EMFscams.html
http://www.emfrelief.com/capacitive-filters.html
Shielded  grounded cables diminish electrical fields ( and also magnetic a bit because twisted wires ) coming from the cables, not from connected devices or lamps, so it helps but not enough, so the first thing to do is to reduce or take away the sources of pollution.
If one wants to remain healthy, the first priority should be to remain out of reach of the greedy claws of medical so called professionals, especially those in hospitals ( there may be an exception to this rule, hopefully not however ).
"Caves are much cheaper. They are nearly giving them away." Amazing, and pretty typical of the modern mindset, and see what people pay for the most horrendous apartments, who is "smart" nowadays ?
As solar panels are mainstream nowadays, caves may become highly popular in the future, especially as es-sensitivity is likely to be taken seriously at some point.
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Re: Any one tried living in a cave?

earthworm
In reply to this post by Karl
Thanks for the link.
Which one do you recommend , the 848-20/004 , or perhaps the 850-20-/004 , or another one ?
http://www.mouser.com/catalog/645/usd/1327.pdf
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Re: Any one tried living in a cave?

Karl
This post was updated on .
I'd go with the 849-20/0004 or 850-20/0004. They have almost twice the common mode inductance of the 848-20/004.

I just did a search on Mouser for AC line filters with 20A capacities or greater, and it looks like the Delta 20DVGG5 and 20DWGG5 are very similar and a little cheaper (at least in the U.S.):

https://www.mouser.com/productdetail/delta-electronics/20dwgg5?qs=sGAEpiMZZMsSfb%252b288R8Fa2t3w6gJEYJO8mkefrir8qHzZmVMaeP9w%3D%3D

https://www.mouser.com/ds/2/632/DW-515769.pdf

Most of the others in that price range have only one small (<1mH) common mode inductor, so the Delta and Qualtek seem to be the best value.
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Re: Any one tried living in a cave?

earthworm
This post was updated on .
great, as soon as a shopping mood takes control of my actions, it will be high on the list.
also much cheaper than these fake filter frauds.
btw, what about using a few qualtek or delta in series or parallel ?
i guess the latter is fine and can be useful where the mains enters.
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Re: Any one tried living in a cave?

Karl
They should work both ways. The 850-20 might be a little better in series than the 849 because of the way the resistors are arranged. (They're attached in a way that should help damp resonances between the filters.)
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