Air purifiers

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Air purifiers

Fog Top

Previously air purifiers were discussed by the group.  I had commented that MCS/EHS doctor Grace Ziem on her intake Environmental Questionnaire asks patients about their usage of air filters.  It appears that the filters which are harmful are the ones which generate ozone such as electrostatic/ionizing filters and ozone generators and not the ones that generate only negative ions.


Here's a current list of the potentially hazardous ozone generators sold as air purifiers:

https://www.arb.ca.gov/research/indoor/o3g-list.htm


An EPA pdf (the ones who fail to monitor environmental EMF) on unhealthy ozone levels:

https://www3.epa.gov/airnow/ozone-c.pdf


bonnie




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Re: Air purifiers

steve
I use an Aireox 45D. Very good for VOC's, not very good for dust. No ionizer though
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Re: Air purifiers

charles
In reply to this post by Fog Top
No, that is not true.
All negative ion generators do emit quite a lot of elektrosmog.
I can measure those fields 5 meters away through stone walls.
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Re: Air purifiers

Fog Top

Thanks for the input, Charles.  Would you happen to be familiar with electrosmog levels from an air purifier which has the negative ion setting turned off?  What type of instrument is best to use to measure the fields generated by air purifiers?




From: charles [via ES] <ml-node+[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2016 11:11 AM
To: Fog Top
Subject: [ES] Re: Air purifiers
 
No, that is not true.
All negative ion generators do emit quite a lot of elektrosmog.
I can measure those fields 5 meters away through stone walls.


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Air purifiers. Previously air purifiers were discussed by the group. I had commented that MCS/EHS doctor Grace Ziem on her intake Environmental Questionnaire asks patients about their usage of air...


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Re: Air purifiers

Patricia
In reply to this post by charles
goodness sakes, charles.
i’m curious…
what kind of negative ion generator are you measuring?
do you have a brand name?
is it a simple negative ion generator or does it have a
fan and other accoutrements?  
thanks.
patricia

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Re: Air purifiers

charles
This post was updated on .
All types.
With as well as without fan.
It is inherent to the system.

For electrosensitives, in general, the most damaging frequencies are between 5kHz and 10MHz.
See: http://www.minderstraling.nl/Pagina050.html 

I measured that with a special spectrumanalyzer.
As long as the peaks were in the µV range (microVolt), it was acceptable, but as soon as they were in the mV range (milliVolt), electrosensitives experienced troubles.
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Re: Air purifiers

Fog Top

And what about air purifiers with no ion generator or with the ion generator turned off - are they really bad for ES persons?




From: charles [via ES] <ml-node+[hidden email]>
Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2016 11:32 AM
To: Fog Top
Subject: [ES] Re: Air purifiers
 
All types.
With as well as without fan.
It is inherent to the system.

For electrosensitives, the most damaging frequencies are between 5kHz and 10MHz.
See: http://www.minderstraling.nl/Pagina050.html 

www.minderstraling.nl
This is a spectrumanalysis when the probe was held against the door of our LG refrigerator. The sweep was done from 1 Hz up to 30.000 kHz or 30 MHz.




I measured that with a special spectrumanalyzer.
As long as the peaks were in the µV range (microVolt), it was acceptable, but as soon as they were in the mV range (milliVolt), electrosensitives experienced troubles.


If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion below:
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Air purifiers. Previously air purifiers were discussed by the group. I had commented that MCS/EHS doctor Grace Ziem on her intake Environmental Questionnaire asks patients about their usage of air...


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Re: Air purifiers

Patricia
a negative ion generator that generates a lot of ozone should not be run constantly.  
use it in a room that needs freshening, then turn it off after 20-30 minutes and wait a while before you enter and use the room.

a negative ion generator that generates a small amount of ozone can be run all day and night without harm.  

i do not use negative ion generators with fans.  it is the fan that puts out the EMF.  
fans, hair dryers, vacuum cleaners, etc - things with moving parts generate electric and magnetic fields.  

my negative ion generators do not measure on my EMF meters while those things that generate heat, sound and light, do.  my ozonator puts out a great deal of ozone and EMF, but that’s what it’s designed to do and i only run it to purify drinking water.   my negative ion generators do not.  

there are negative ion generators - and then there are negative ion generators.  
to me, they’re worth their weight in gold.  I am so grateful for them each time i look out the window at the chemtrails spreading out across the sky.  
i am grateful for them because the dog smells in its own space, but on the other side of the negative ion generator - on my side of the room, there is no doggie odor or dander.  
i am grateful for them because cooking odors do not linger.  i gave one of my roommates a tiny little negative ion generator.  it’s on top of the kitchen counter in his house - and the bacon, etc smells quickly dissipate thanks to the tiny little thing on top of the cabinet.  when he bought an ozonator, and began to ozonate his drinking water without a cover to prevent the ozone from escaping, i could smell ozone… but even then, the ozone odor is soon gone.  
i have been using negative ion generators for 35 years and i believe they have kept me healthy despite all the “challenges” of air quality in the modern world.  my first negative ion generator was used on a street near the ocean in San Francisco, next to a bus line.  the wall behind the table i kept it on was black from the soot of the gasoline engines, but the air was kept clean and clear in my apartment.

so i always ask those who say that a negative ion generator gives off EMF, ‘what kind of negative ion generators are you talking about?'  mine gives off zero EMF.  i always suspect it is one of the big monsters that houses fans.  i’ve had those kinds too and they do generate a great deal of EMF… but not simple, plain, pure negative ion generators.  but then… it’s hard to find companies that can resist gussying up their wares.  ;)  

love, patricia



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Re: Air purifiers

earthworm

Well, i agree and disagree, the ozon issue may be exaggerated and one has the weigh out the potential harm from EMF against the impact of air pollution.
But what we measure depends to begin with on the meters one uses.
I have a whole bunch of them and actually do not trust any really.
Apart from that, meters and antennas are limited to certain ranges of frequencies, and also one needs experience and some knowledge to use them and evaluate the results.
Clean air is without doubt vital of course, likely even more so for ES-folks.
These ionizers probably helped you a lot to survive in urban areas.
Not to recommend to buy something from this company, but here i found some general and clear introduction into air-cleaners :
http://www.freedrinkingwater.com/general-health/air/diff-types-of-air-filters.php
A good filter to be placed at the four corners of one's property would be this one :
https://envinitygroup.com/   , see also : https://envinitygroup.com/particles/
Thanks to regulation that forces the car-industry to reduce the visible smoke-levels, we suffer these days from more ultra-fine chemical particles ( with diameters below 0.1 micrometer / 100 nano-meter ) than ever before.
And these happen to be the worst, as one could guess, while high concentrations are found as tiny as between 5 and 10 nano-meter.
I watched last week an interesting film mostly about air-pollution ( unfortunately in Dutch but with English texts ) :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRjtO_yqN4k
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Re: Air purifiers

Patricia
In reply to this post by charles
why does my emf meter measure nil at my negative ion generators?  
i’m perplexed.  
patricia 


On Nov 19, 2016, at 5:32 AM, charles [via ES] <[hidden email]> wrote:

All types.
With as well as without fan.
It is inherent to the system.

For electrosensitives, the most damaging frequencies are between 5kHz and 10MHz.
See: http://www.minderstraling.nl/Pagina050.html 

I measured that with a special spectrumanalyzer.
As long as the peaks were in the µV range (microVolt), it was acceptable, but as soon as they were in the mV range (milliVolt), electrosensitives experienced troubles.


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Re: Air purifiers

charles
Patricia,

that is very normal and understandable.
There are meters and meters.
All meters can measure between a minimum and a maximum, which is determined by the manufacturor.

Most high frequency meters work in the range 800MHz to 2500MHz.
Others go from 800MHz to 8- or 10MHz, depending on meter and antenna.
With some tricks, some meters can detect between 28MHz to 2500MHz.

For low frequencies, it goes from 16Hz up to 2kHz, or 100kHz or 400kHz.
But these meters do not give proper sound.
And the bands between 5kHz and 10 MHz are not properly equipped.
So frequencies of f.i. 600kHz, 4MHz or 6MHz cannpot be grasped.

Only special detectors, from Endotronic for instance, or special spectrumanalysers, like the Spectran NF5035 can do that(from 1Hz up to 20MHz or 30MHz) .

But a HAM radio can detect these dirty frequencies also.
Be careful, because you'll hear an enormous loud noise at your ion generator, or TV or computer.
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Re: Air purifiers

Fog Top
In reply to this post by Patricia

"why does my emf meter measure nil at my negative ion generators?  
i’m perplexed...."


Patricia, I think the offending EMF from these generators is in the kilohertz range - undetectable by  cheaper EMF meters. Most likely an expensive spectrum analyzer is needed for detection.




From: Patricia [via ES] <ml-node+[hidden email]>
Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2016 10:33 PM
To: Fog Top
Subject: [ES] Re: Air purifiers
 
why does my emf meter measure nil at my negative ion generators?  
i’m perplexed.  
patricia 


On Nov 19, 2016, at 5:32 AM, charles [via ES] <[hidden email]> wrote:

All types.
With as well as without fan.
It is inherent to the system.

For electrosensitives, the most damaging frequencies are between 5kHz and 10MHz.
See: http://www.minderstraling.nl/Pagina050.html 

I measured that with a special spectrumanalyzer.
As long as the peaks were in the µV range (microVolt), it was acceptable, but as soon as they were in the mV range (milliVolt), electrosensitives experienced troubles.


If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion below:
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Re: Air purifiers

Patricia
i’m sorry, but i do not speak the language.  
is a kilhertz smaller than milligauss?    
my meter is inexpensive but i have 
compared readings to expensive 
meters and it measures similarly to them.  
the meter does not measure above 5 milligauss, 
but it measures from 0 to 5.  
i can also check the negative ion generator 
with a tri-field meter. 
does it measure in kilohertz?  
what is the difference between hertz & gauss?  
anybody?  ?!?!?!?   thanks.  
patricia 


On Nov 27, 2016, at 6:13 PM, Fog Top [via ES] <[hidden email]> wrote:


"why does my emf meter measure nil at my negative ion generators?  
i’m perplexed...."


Patricia, I think the offending EMF from these generators is in the kilohertz range - undetectable by  cheaper EMF meters. Most likely an expensive spectrum analyzer is needed for detection.




From: Patricia [via ES] <ml-node+<a href="x-msg://70/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&amp;node=4030018&amp;i=0" target="_top" rel="nofollow" link="external" class="">[hidden email]>
Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2016 10:33 PM
To: Fog Top
Subject: [ES] Re: Air purifiers
 
why does my emf meter measure nil at my negative ion generators?  
i’m perplexed.  
patricia 


On Nov 19, 2016, at 5:32 AM, charles [via ES] <<a href="x-msg://70/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&amp;node=4030016&amp;i=0" target="_top" rel="nofollow" link="external" class="">[hidden email]> wrote:

All types.
With as well as without fan.
It is inherent to the system.

For electrosensitives, the most damaging frequencies are between 5kHz and 10MHz.
See: http://www.minderstraling.nl/Pagina050.html 

I measured that with a special spectrumanalyzer.
As long as the peaks were in the µV range (microVolt), it was acceptable, but as soon as they were in the mV range (milliVolt), electrosensitives experienced troubles.


If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion below:
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Re: Air purifiers

Fog Top

Hi Patricia,

I still struggle with the "language", also but will try to explain.

Your Trifield measures magnetic field intensity from 60 hertz power in units of gauss or milligauss (mG = one-thousandth of a gauss).  This is different than frequency measurements which are given in units of hertz, kilohertz, megahertz, gigahertz.  Gaussmeters don't measure frequency.  Charles uses a spectrum analyzer for that and that's how he knows that the ion generators produce kilohertz and megahertz frequency on the house wiring when in use.

Here's an explanation from Richard Conrad:

http://www.conradbiologic.com/articles/Gaussmeters.html

www.conradbiologic.com
GAUSSMETERS by Richard Conrad, Ph.D., 6/19/10 Most gaussmeters (magnetic field meters) are designed primarily to measure 60 cycle magnetic fields from house wiring.






From: Patricia [via ES] <ml-node+[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, November 28, 2016 5:12 AM
To: Fog Top
Subject: [ES] Re: Air purifiers
 
i’m sorry, but i do not speak the language.  
is a kilhertz smaller than milligauss?    
my meter is inexpensive but i have 
compared readings to expensive 
meters and it measures similarly to them.  
the meter does not measure above 5 milligauss, 
but it measures from 0 to 5.  
i can also check the negative ion generator 
with a tri-field meter. 
does it measure in kilohertz?  
what is the difference between hertz & gauss?  
anybody?  ?!?!?!?   thanks.  
patricia 


On Nov 27, 2016, at 6:13 PM, Fog Top [via ES] <[hidden email]> wrote:


"why does my emf meter measure nil at my negative ion generators?  
i’m perplexed...."


Patricia, I think the offending EMF from these generators is in the kilohertz range - undetectable by  cheaper EMF meters. Most likely an expensive spectrum analyzer is needed for detection.




From: Patricia [via ES] <ml-node+<a href="x-msg://70/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&amp;node=4030018&amp;i=0" target="_top" rel="nofollow" link="external" class="">[hidden email]>
Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2016 10:33 PM
To: Fog Top
Subject: [ES] Re: Air purifiers
 
why does my emf meter measure nil at my negative ion generators?  
i’m perplexed.  
patricia 


On Nov 19, 2016, at 5:32 AM, charles [via ES] <<a href="x-msg://70/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&amp;node=4030016&amp;i=0" target="_top" rel="nofollow" link="external" class="">[hidden email]> wrote:

All types.
With as well as without fan.
It is inherent to the system.

For electrosensitives, the most damaging frequencies are between 5kHz and 10MHz.
See: http://www.minderstraling.nl/Pagina050.html 

I measured that with a special spectrumanalyzer.
As long as the peaks were in the µV range (microVolt), it was acceptable, but as soon as they were in the mV range (milliVolt), electrosensitives experienced troubles.


If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion below:
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To unsubscribe from ES, click here.




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Re: Air purifiers

charles
In reply to this post by Patricia
Patricia,

why don't you look around on my website www.milieuziektes.nl
If you click on the english flag, you'l get english text, otherwise use Google translate.

Elektrosmog consists of"
- electrical fields; measures in Volt/m or W/m²
- magnetical fields; meassures in nT or Gauss
- electromagnetic fields: measures the electrical component in V/m or W/m²

- static electrical fields
* static magnetical fields
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