5.8GHZ vs. DECT?

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5.8GHZ vs. DECT?

sailplane
Anybody tested any 5.8GHZ cordless phones?

I'm wondering if something like this:
https://www.amazon.ca/Panasonic-Expandable-Digital-Cordless-Answering/dp/B00DDTZT1U/ref=sr_1_6?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1502146467&sr=1-6&keywords=panasonic+5.8ghz

will emit while idle..
Some say only DECT does, and 5.8ghz doesn't seem to say DECT on it?
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Re: 5.8GHZ vs. DECT?

Fog Top

The Panasonic 5.8 GHz cordless phone that I checked out at a friend's house was pulsing constantly and very strongly.  I don't know what model it was.  I've heard that only certain European models are available that don't pulse when not in use.




From: sailplane [via ES] <ml+[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, August 7, 2017 10:56 PM
To: Fog Top
Subject: [ES] 5.8GHZ vs. DECT?
 
Anybody tested any 5.8GHZ cordless phones?

I'm wondering if something like this:
https://www.amazon.ca/Panasonic-Expandable-Digital-Cordless-Answering/dp/B00DDTZT1U/ref=sr_1_6?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1502146467&sr=1-6&keywords=panasonic+5.8ghz




will emit while idle..
Some say only DECT does, and 5.8ghz doesn't seem to say DECT on it?


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Re: 5.8GHZ vs. DECT?

sailplane
This post was updated on .
Fog Top wrote
The Panasonic 5.8 GHz cordless phone that I checked out at a friend's house was pulsing constantly and very strongly.  I don't know what model it was.  I've heard that only certain European models are available that don't pulse when not in use.
Ok thanks for letting me know.
Siemens told me it's only in Europe, I posted that in another thread, but that was for DECT, I was hoping this non dect phone does.. Nope.

I found one more phone brand that they say does not radiate in Idle, it's called EnGenius, their DuraPhones don't emit while idle they said.
But.. when they do emit, watch out, because these are 900mhz long range, 400mW phones that work for 250,000 sq. ft. they say.

This is what EnGenius support told me:
1) The base unit does not transmit a signal unless required (ie: phone call,
programming)
2) The DuraFon models do use maximum transmit power when transmitting.
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Re: 5.8GHZ vs. DECT?

Fog Top

Here's a "low EMF" Eco-Dect Cordless phone:

http://www.emfields-solutions.com/phones/cordless.asp






From: sailplane [via ES] <ml+[hidden email]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 8, 2017 2:20 AM
To: Fog Top
Subject: [ES] Re: 5.8GHZ vs. DECT?
 
Fog Top wrote
The Panasonic 5.8 GHz cordless phone that I checked out at a friend's house was pulsing constantly and very strongly.  I don't know what model it was.  I've heard that only certain European models are available that don't pulse when not in use.
Ok thanks for letting me know.
Siemens told me it's only in Europe, I posted that in another thread, but that was for DECT, I was hoping this non dect phone does.. Nope.

I found one more phone brand that they say does not radiate in Idle, it's called EnGenius, their DuraPhones don't emit while idle they said.
But.. when they do emit, watch out, because these are 900mhz long range, 400mW phones that work for 250,000 sq. ft. they say.




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Re: 5.8GHZ vs. DECT?

sailplane
This post was updated on .
Fog Top wrote
Here's a "low EMF" Eco-Dect Cordless phone:

http://www.emfields-solutions.com/phones/cordless.asp
yes... but:

"Note to our overseas customers from Siemens: "Due to telephone line specifications and hardware specifications, a product sold in a specific country is to be used in that country. If the telephone is used anywhere else, we are not able to confirm that the telephone or all the features (if any) will be functioning as it should in its country of origin." Due to this specific advice from Siemens, we are not able to supply phones for use outside of the UK."

Other sellers on eBay are willing, but I don't know if Caller ID will work for example.. Also will need 120V adapters.  It's really a pain... I just want ONE North America phone that does this.. other than the long range EnGenius..
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Re: 5.8GHZ vs. DECT?

sailplane
This post was updated on .
It seems that Radiation Free while idle cordless phones in North America are basically banned.. I don't know how EnGenius got away with it.  Probably nobody knows.

Same Siemens models with same model # do not turn off in idle in North America, but they do in Europe.  It's the SAME phone. So it looks like somebody forced Siemens to remove the radiation reduction feature from the menu.  I bet the phone can do it, but the menu is just disabled.

Siemens support just told me "there is some kind of law" preventing them to provide this feature here.
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Re: 5.8GHZ vs. DECT?

Fog Top

Sailplane said: Same Siemens models with same model # do not turn off in idle in North America, but they do in Europe.  It's the SAME phone. So it looks like somebody forced Siemens to remove the radiation reduction feature from the menu.

I can't locate saved meme of Uncle Sam pointing with the caption  "You must take your daily dose of radiation".  Would have been perfect here.




From: sailplane [via ES] <ml+[hidden email]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 8, 2017 4:55 PM
To: Fog Top
Subject: [ES] Re: 5.8GHZ vs. DECT?
 
It seems that Radiation Free while idle cordless phones in North America are basically banned.. I don't know how EnGenius got away with it.  Probably nobody knows.

Same Siemens models with same model # do not turn off in idle in North America, but they do in Europe.  It's the SAME phone. So it looks like somebody forced Siemens to remove the radiation reduction feature from the menu.  I bet the phone can do it, but the menu is just disabled.


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Re: 5.8GHZ vs. DECT?

sailplane
This post was updated on .
Fog Top wrote
I can't locate saved meme of Uncle Sam pointing with the caption  "You must take your daily dose of radiation".  Would have been perfect here.
Haha...What could this law possibly say?.. Your phone must emit radiation at all times?  I have not heard anybody point to such law existing.. I was surprised the Siemens person said there's a law.  Everyone was hinting that there is, but nobody said it.  Magda Havas says the FCC does not want Radiation Free stuff on her site.. but did not say there's a law.

The handset should listen for a "ring" signal, and the base should send a signal when somebody calls.  I do not see a need for a signal 10 times a second?.. I am no telecom engineer.. they say turning it radiation free makes it so that up to one second lapses between ring time and actual handset ring time, making you lose one second to answer it.
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Re: 5.8GHZ vs. DECT?

Marc Martin
Administrator
> Haha...What could this law possibly say?.. Your phone must emit radiation at
> all times?  I have not heard anybody point to such law existing.. I was
> surprised the Siemens person said there's a law.  Everyone was hinting that
> there is, but nobody said it.

Yes, especially since landlines don't emit wireless radiation, nor do corded VOIP phones.  And cellphones at least have an "airplane mode".

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Re: 5.8GHZ vs. DECT?

sailplane
Marc Martin wrote
> Haha...What could this law possibly say?.. Your phone must emit radiation at
> all times?  I have not heard anybody point to such law existing.. I was
> surprised the Siemens person said there's a law.  Everyone was hinting that
> there is, but nobody said it.

Yes, especially since landlines don't emit wireless radiation, nor do corded VOIP phones.  And cellphones at least have an "airplane mode".
And they can just do this, for no reason?  They must've had some technical ways to explain why it must radiate??.. But why would Europe be ok with the lack of radiation?..  
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Re: 5.8GHZ vs. DECT?

Marc Martin
Administrator
> And they can just do this, for no reason?  They must've had some technical
> ways to explain why it must radiate??.. But why would Europe be ok with the
> lack of radiation?..  

The reason I've seen given is that the European phones use a frequency that cannot be used in the USA, as it's reserved for military use.  Sounds kind of bogus, but that's what I've read.
 
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Re: 5.8GHZ vs. DECT?

sailplane
This post was updated on .
Marc Martin wrote
The reason I've seen given is that the European phones use a frequency that cannot be used in the USA, as it's reserved for military use.  Sounds kind of bogus, but that's what I've read.
Right it does sound bogus,..
Frequency and idle radiation have nothing to do with each other.. Deciding when to send a signal or not has nothing to do with frequency of the wave, it's just a matter of not powering the antenna wire..

Once the call is over the antenna power can be turned off, regardless of frequency.  It's like turning your WiFi off in a router.  When a call comes in, it can turn back on, .. and probably take 1 second to re-sync with the phone.

Heck, one can even try this out by unplugging their phone and re-plugging it when somebody calls.. It should work, .. just as a proof that it's possible.  It will take more than 1 second for the base to boot up probably, but that's from cold start.
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Re: 5.8GHZ vs. DECT?

sailplane
This post was updated on .
It's also odd that some 900mhz, especially early ones, they say did not radiate while idle.
And the EnGenius Durafon is 900mhz which they say doesn't emit while idle.

But not all 900mhz stop emitting while idle.. and why did they stop making 900mhz cordless and went to 2.4 ghz?? 900 was a much better frequency requiring less power and goes through things better.
Also 900mhz doesn't crowd up the 2.4ghz band, although I am not sure if Cordless 2.4ghz is in the same range as WiFi 2.4ghz, I find that hard to believe that it is, although some say it is.. it's easily checked though.

2.4 WLAN is 2.412 to 2.472ghz.

"DECT 6.0 is a North American variation of DECT, operating at 1.9 GHz. The DECT and DECT 6.0 technologies are essentially identical, except for operating frequency."

"In North America, DECT suffers from major deficits, especially in comparison to DECT elsewhere, since the UPCS band (1920–1930 MHz) used for DECT in North America is not free from heavy interference and only half as wide as that used in Europe (1880–1900 MHz), the 4 mW average transmission power limits the range to far less than the 10 mW permitted in Europe"

The most common spectrum allocation is 1880 MHz to 1900 MHz; outside Europe, 1900 MHz to 1920 MHz and 1910 MHz to 1930 MHz spectrum is available in several countries.
1880 – 1900 MHz in Europe, as well as South Africa, Asia, Hong Kong,[11] Australia, and New Zealand
1786 – 1792 MHz in Korea
1880 – 1895 MHz in Taiwan
1893 – 1906 MHz (J-DECT) in Japan
1900 – 1920 MHz in China (until 2003)[citation needed]
1910 – 1920 MHz in Brazil
1910 – 1930 MHz in Latin America
1920 – 1930 MHz (DECT 6.0) in the United States and Canada


So they have 1880-1900 and we have 1920-1930, not much of a difference.
I don't believe that 4mW limit whatsoever, I've measured 2000+ mW coming out of the base I have with Gigahertz HF32D... Even if it's per cm2, that would make it 400 per m2.. still over.
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Re: 5.8GHZ vs. DECT?

sailplane
Maybe because we have less frequency range they tried to make it interfere less... just in case two phones got a call at the same time and decided on using the same channel all of a sudden?.. But this could happen in Europe as well in a crowded place, there has to be some way they made it work so interference doesn't happen.

"The DECT 6.0 protocol supports five channels across 10 MHz, each 1.728  MHz wide. In turn, each of those five channels can support up to 12 duplex voice devices, for a total of 60 devices operating in a given location on the upper UPCS band. The FCC requires all devices operating in 1920-1930 MHz to listen for the least interfered channel before choosing a frequency, and also limits transmitter power to 100 mW. This translates to spectrum that is less crowded and less likely to interfere, even with multiple devices, since each device cannot transmit until it knows it has found an empty channel. "
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Re: 5.8GHZ vs. DECT?

sailplane
This post was updated on .
I think the most important radiation aspect of DECT is that they consider it 10mW, but it's 10 pulses of 250mW per second.
The 10mW is averaged, it's really 250mW pulses.  They don't say if it's per cm2 or m2.

Although, I have measured some DECT phones that don't make the typical buzzing noise at all on my meter, and they seem to be lower radiation.  So I think some DECT may not be pulsing like this,.. don't know how that's possible.  It was a Panasonic unit.  It the lowest rad unit I have found so far.
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Re: 5.8GHZ vs. DECT?

sailplane
This post was updated on .
Upon more research, it seems Gigaset just did radiation-free for Europe, and didn't bother to adjust the frequencies to North America.  

So they just disabled the feature instead of making different hardware for here that would use the proper frequencies allowed here.. I am guessing they didn't want to re-invent the programming of the unit to match the spectrum and rules here.  They just give as an excuse that the frequencies are not allowed, but that's just not allowed for their existing system, although they could have modified it.

So, I think it's still possible and allowed to make such phone, but nobody has done it.. except EnGenius's 900mhz.

I'm not sure how frequency is controlled, if it's just the firmware.. It seems like it wouldn't have been too hard for them to do it.
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